Proverbs 9 - Tom Mann

Show intro: 0:03

Welcome to the affirming words podcast, where you're encouraged to speak the word renew your mind and transform your life. Here's your host Rick Tarrant.

Rick Tarrant: 0:14

Hola, buenos dias, buenos tardes Buenas noches. wherever in the world you may be welcome to the affirming word studio where we pursue getting the right words in our mind and our heart and in our mouth, because it's all about renewing the mind believing the truth, and crushing the lie. So let me pray. Father, we do commit this time to you. Thank you for my friend, Tom over so many years joining us. Thank you for our friends in the affirming words, family joining us on Zoom and whoever may hear this live or recorded. We just thank You, Lord for this process that we can renew our minds and speak your word. And see our lives transformed. We just as we go through proverbs pursuing wisdom, we just ask that you give us open hearts open minds. In Jesus name. Amen and Amen. So I am excited about my friend Tom man and our Look at Proverbs nine. But first, I was just gonna look at our friends in the Zoom Room and see if we had any shares on how you how you been feeling about this affirming wisdom, time that we've been having together. Now this is totally a totally unprepared they're totally unprepared, Tom. So I don't know what may or may not come for us.

Tom Mann: 1:25

I feel like I'm in good company then.

Rick Tarrant: 1:28

So I may just have to call on someone if I don't see a hand. You know, Cathy's off camera. John's off camera, Sandy's off camera, that means they're multitasking. So you know, we haven't heard from Jackie, Jackie, Jackie, Jackie, how was your pursuit of wisdom this month, Jackie is in London, by the way, Tom. So all the way from from Illinois, across the pond to London, London, I just wanted to introduce you to

Jackie Raymond: 1:54

my pursuit of wisdom. It's chugging along nicely, I think gathering pace,

Rick Tarrant: 2:01

chugging along nicely. Well,

Jackie Raymond: 2:04

I'm coming on the back of the wisdom challenge that we've just done. It's really, it's been really good to kind of reinforce the messages that we've heard from, from that series, and onto this series. And the people that you've brought on, it's been really cool to hear their perspective of the different things they've drawn out of the different proverbs that we've listened to so far.

Rick Tarrant: 2:29

You know, the one theme that seems to be coming up over and over again, from all of our guests so far has been the importance of community. And that's one of the things I appreciate about appreciate about you, the way we hang out here is that we do have a sense of, you know, some community and it's not like we live next door or go to the same church or anything, but there is been that sense of, of being able to come here or put a prayer request out or say, Hey, I'm going through, you know, we have a private message group. And that's one thing, I would appreciate it and I appreciate you coming all the way from London to to be a part of this. So thank you, Jackie.

Jackie Raymond: 3:05

Okay, you're welcome Rick. It's good. It's a good day. It's a good time in my day, so I look forward to it.

Rick Tarrant: 3:11

Excellent. Excellent. Well, my friend Tom, man, Tom, I'm gonna give you a proper introduction. Tom has spent 40 years working on the air although he doesn't look a day over 30 in production and in management and radio and television. He's known for his documentary work and as an innovator in the use of new tech and audio video production. He currently operates his company man voice and produces and hosts the podcast called Emergency FD storyline, which is all about firefighters on the front line. And he co hosts brave conversations with our friend Danny Synot, who we've already heard from this morning. And he's heard daily on WB vn radio in Southern Illinois. welcome my friend to affirming words for this month, or as we're calling it, affirming wisdom, ladies and gentlemen, Tom, man.

Tom Mann: 3:59

Thank you. Yeah, we go back a long way, don't we? Rick?

Rick Tarrant: 4:05

A few. A few. Yeah, a few years. I've been around a few minutes. So you got you got to tell them about the day you were born to add to my studio? Oh,

Tom Mann: 4:15

well, let me let me tell you there are a couple of guys that were my mentors back in the day. Rick was one of them. And part of it was he just had this way of doing stuff really well. And that was part of it. The other thing was, we constantly played him in a radio when I was on the radio and Christian radio years ago. And that area, and Rick was always on that was the voice that was the kind of the voice of Christian radio. So one day I was working on a studio of my own and I had my dad come up and I said you got to see the studio. He said what for said you have to see the studio and is to see all of Rick's toys. And the way he set it up and he gave my dad just an idea and my dad wound up designing his studio. He was an architect, engineer. And he did that and built all kinds of things for me. And that was a day just I went over there. That was one of the days I think I went over there a couple times, Rick and once I just was to see what you were doing and how you did what you did, and just kind of get a gander of it. So that's I don't know how long ago that's been

Rick Tarrant: 5:20

those probably late 80s, early 90s Probably it was earlier than that.

Tom Mann: 5:24

I would say it was mid mid 80s Because I really

Rick Tarrant: 5:29

that's about let me tell you, Tom, we moved into that house that I just came across a picture I've had I have it in the other room of of me sitting at those reel to reel tape recorders, spicing up splicing tape and stuff. So yeah, Tom came over with his dad and I recall it was like he he was sort of like it was young and energetic and see dad see what you could do with you know, with with equipment like this. So I don't know if Dad was gonna help fund fund your mission, your vision there. But that's that's the way that's the way

Tom Mann: 5:58

he actually did. He helps. And it was it was it was great. But you were the catalyst for that. It was kind of like look at this guy doing this, you know,

Rick Tarrant: 6:06

and this process this month of affirming wisdom, feel like the Lord's had me reaching out to people from my past like you and it's so good to reconnect with people that were there in the beginning, like a gentleman is editing an audio book I'm working on right now. He was also in that studio, I actually sold him some of that first piece of gear to start this. And now he's gone on to produce, you know, Grammy Award winning music and stuff. So it's like, what? That's amazing.

Tom Mann: 6:30

No, but you you had a big impact on many of us. And Rick was just our big brother just a few years older. And that was the big thing you really say

Rick Tarrant: 6:37

every every every fifth grader wants to be a sixth grader, right? So that's right. That's right. I dish

Tom Mann: 6:44

disclaimer real quick. If anyone hears banging in here we have a lot of construction going on. Just above my studio. And then also I'm I have dogs in here with me. I usually don't and so if you hear that it's not me.

Rick Tarrant: 6:59

It's not your stomach growling No.

Tom Mann: 7:01

And it's going for about a week we had the same thing with ice storms and storms and delayed everything so

Rick Tarrant: 7:06

as you're having you're having all the floors replaced upstairs floors and we have all kinds of things it's something you need to be done. So but that's happening now so Oh, the joys of working from home. Okay. Shall we jump normally quite as a mouse? Yeah, we jump into proverbs nine. See where see where it leads us? What? What translation Do you like

Tom Mann: 7:26

a New Living Translation I've really fallen in love with that over the past few years. I've kind of get away from being the purist I got stories on that. You know, being microphone stops. I think in times past I've been a Bible snob you know, versions and things with the New Living I love because of the language and because you communicated very clearly that's what I like the most.

Rick Tarrant: 7:48

Well, so we'll have two more modern you with the NL T and me with the message this morning. Ah, okay, there we go. NLT was my friend Tom dooleys favorite version as well. He actually did an mp3 version of the Bible. And before he went on to be with Jesus from the NLT he would get up and record at four in the morning to record the Bible. And before he went on the air at 6am on his morning show in Dallas, so yeah, that's that was a way to wake up. Yes. Wait, do I have indeed. Alright, I'll let you start.

Tom Mann: 8:21

Okay, starting in verse one. It says wisdom has built her house. She has carved it seven columns. She has prepared a great banquet mix with one's mix with the wines and set the table. She has said her servants to invite everyone to come. She calls out from the heights overlooking the city. Come in with me. She urges the simple and to those who lack good judgment. She says, Come eat my food and drink the wine I have mixed. Leave your simple ways behind and begin to live. Learn to use good judgment.

Rick Tarrant: 8:58

Lady wisdom has built in furnished her home. It's supported by seven hewn timbers, the banquet meal is ready to be served. Lamb roasted wine poured out table set with silver and flowers. Having dismissed her serving maids. Lady wisdom Goes to Town stands in a prominent place and invites everyone within the sound of her voice. Are you confused about life? Don't know what's going on? Come with me. Oh come have dinner with me. I've prepared a wonderful spread fresh baked bread roast lamb carefully selected whines leave your impoverished confusion and live walk up the street to a life with meaning.

Tom Mann: 9:40

goes on to say anyone who were rebukes a mocker will get an insult and return so anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers they will only hate you but correct the wise. They will love you and struck the wise and they will be even wiser. Teach the righteous and they will learn even more.

Rick Tarrant: 10:02

I love that. If you reason with an arrogant cynic, you'll get slapped in the face, confront bad behavior, and you get a kick in the shins. So don't waste your time on a scoffer all you'll get for your pains is abuse. But if you correct those who care about life, that's different. They'll love you for it. Save your breath for the wise, they'll be wiser for it. Tell good people what you know, and they'll profit from it. Is that where you stopped?

Tom Mann: 10:32

That's where that's exactly where it stopped. Next three verses I love it says fear of the Lord the fear of the Lord is the foundation of wisdom knowledge of the holy one results in good judgment. Wisdom will multiply your days and add years to your life. If you become wise you will be one the one to benefit if you score and wisdom you will be the one to suffer I like that little section together that's that's the nutshell between the two two big points kind of like that's the somebody I heard somebody said that's the that's kind of like the cream or shall we say the the icing or something inside of an Oreo cookie? That's that's that good part there

Rick Tarrant: 11:17

I don't know I don't know if our friend John John homestead would agree since he is no okay, well, just cookie company but yeah. Let me let me read that out of Eugene Peterson phrased it this way. Skilled living gets its start in the fear of God insight into life from knowing a holy God. It's through me Lady wisdom that your life deepens and the years of your life ripen. live wisely and wisdom will permeate your life mock life and life will mock you.

Tom Mann: 11:50

Are 13 says the woman named Folly is brash she is ignorant and doesn't know it. She sits in her doorway on the heights overlooking the city. She calls out to men going by who are minding their own business come in with me she urges is simple. To those who lack good judgment. She says stolen water is refreshing. food eaten and secret tastes the best. But little do they know that they are dead? loaded in the nose. Do that again. But little do they know that the dead are there. Her guests are in the depths of the grave.

Rick Tarrant: 12:30

The Message says madam whore calls out then there's this other woman. It's been lady wisdom talking up until this point. Then there's this other one. Madame hor, brazen, empty headed frivolous. She sits on the front porch of her house on Main Street. And as people walk by minding their own business calls out are you confused about life? Don't know what's going on? Steel off with me. I'll show you a good time. Hey, Sailor Oh, no one will ever know. I'll give you the time of your life. But they don't know about all the skeletons in her closet. That all her guests end up in hell. That's powerful. Here. Bum bum. Yeah, I need to get I need to get I need to get on my soundboard. Here. Sound effects on bum bum. That's like, mic Mic drop. So

Tom Mann: 13:32

what do you need? Go ahead and ask me I guess I'll ask before you ask you. I like to ask what you do to go ahead.

Rick Tarrant: 13:38

Well, I'm just gonna say what jumped off the page at you. There's a lot crammed in that short.

Tom Mann: 13:43

You know, it's interesting, there's something that that there's a theme, sometimes the Scripture drill notice. And one of those is that wisdom is being compared as a woman. And then you have a woman of folly or harlotry. That's kind of at the end. And then you have the same thing, believe it or not, I like in the book of Revelation in which my my thought represents two churches and to two things. So you have it's interesting how this has done that. And I think what the way I look at it, you know, is God picking on women? No. It's the fact that I think women are very powerful. I know. For instance, my wife is a powerful influence on my life. And I think what it is it's representing two women in one. And those two women represent something one is representing wisdom. One is basically representing being foolish, folly, and all the negatives and then right in the center, there's something being told to us and I love it. Talking about the fear of the Lord is the foundation of wisdom and knowledge of the holy one results in good judgment. And that wisdom will multiply your days and add years to your life. It goes on to say if you become wise you will be the one to benefit if you scorn wisdom, you'll be well you'll be the one to suffer because of that. It's kind of interesting because it's Like, we're being urged something in the middle, by the way, this is the good thing. This is what it's about. And here's the bad thing. And to me, I don't know, I love those, I, there's three verses in there. Verse 1011 12, have always been favorites of mine. And again, understanding the fear of God. And to me, that's, that's, it's about relationship, there is no fear in that, but there's a reverence. And there's a respect for his ways, and for all those things. And that's not a, you know, something that you, you do to do. It's not a performance thing, to me, it's something that you really honor God with. And we're just being told something very practical, you know, be wise, be wise in life, and it will multiply your days, some promises with wisdom. I mean, I'm sure he has gone throughout Proverbs, and you find that and so to me, this is a really, it's kind of a neat little passage. And there's so much, I don't know, I don't get to Bible nerdy, but I love the imagery and scripture of things. It's just, it brings things out this was talking about, it's using a woman, a descriptive woman in two different ways. But I think about that, because that woman has a powerful influence on you, and so does wisdom. And so does, you know, folly or foolishness, the same thing. So anyway, that's that's kind of my Gander on that.

Rick Tarrant: 16:26

Yeah. And I guess, you know, at the time, the time that in which proverbs was written, it was a father talking to his son, son. Yeah, so he's giving him some advice and urging him to, to choose the right path that will lead to his life being blessed, or he can choose the, the path that will lead to his demise and his folly and his destruction. And it's so it's from that point of view, and I try not to read it with a judgmental although now there's past I've always I think I did. Like, I would see some of those, I'd see people Oh, yeah, he's a fool, you know, that. Or I would see my mistakes plugged into the Proverbs and go, Yeah, you were a dummy. You know, so it's like, I'm coming to that point where let's, let's don't read with judgment, let's just read, you know, look, searching for wisdom, you know, and

Tom Mann: 17:14

it's really what the passage I think is about, and you find a little bit of that, and it's true in all of us. You know, I've heard you know, even a wise man can do foolish things. It's not his pattern, maybe in life and yet, mouth shut though. So there's, you know, you have a lot of that, but I think to be it's to me, this is a, it's something I don't know, I look at the passage, it's like, you know, God wants to speak to us so deeply about, I guess his ways and that you see that word, fear of the Lord, his His ways, His thoughts, His mind. And it's a beautiful thing. And that's the thing. It's like, choose wisdom. And that's the theme throughout a lot of Proverbs, choose wisdom, be wise. Man, I know everything but but be wise. And I love I love that passage. So it's good. It's really good, good passage for today.

Rick Tarrant: 18:11

You know, we started affirming words, in February of 2021. And the as it began to unfold, because I didn't really have a clue what I was doing. Still, don't tell I don't tell anyone. But but the what it evolved into, or what it began to begin to understand is that in this going through and speaking the word which is speaking out the truth, not the lie, that you begin to you're informing your mind. And as you say it out loud. You're informing your heart. And what's happening is the renewing of the mind, because the old man, or it just the world in which we live, we what we mostly hear are the the voices of folly. You know, whether it's in the news, whether it's your best friend, whether it's like, it's just, you know, there's a lot of folly in the world that has a loud, loud voice from the radio to the, to the internet. And so we're taught, we're confronting those voices, with the truth of God's voice, right. And one thing that really jumped out is always jumped out of this chapter to me. Let's listen. Now this is out of the New King James, but listen to the, the language here in chapter four. This is Lady wisdom, whoever is simple. Let him turn in here. As for him who lacks understanding, she says to him, come eat of my bread and drink of the wine I have mixed. But then down at 16, another female is talking, calling to those who pass by who goes straight on their way. Whoever is simple, let him turn in here. As for him who lacks understanding, she says to him, that's it. Let me know what and let's go back to the universe for whoever is simple. Let him turn in here. As for him who lacks understanding, she says to him, wisdom says Come and eat of my bread and drink of the wine I have mixed for sake foolishness and live, go in the way of understanding. But the harlot says stolen water is sweet. And bread eaten and secret is pleasant. But he does not know that the dead are there and her guests, you know, it's like they both have the same intro line. And I was just thinking about when Jesus was tempted in the desert, what did what did what did what did the devil do? He he started quoting scripture and, you know, making promises and as in like Jesus was smart enough not to fall for that bait, obviously, because he knew his father. And that's our goal, I think, is to know the father's voice so that we can speak it out and not be led astray when you know, an ice storm comes with a power failure comes or, you know, a good looking lady comes knocking on your door, you know what I mean? So,

Tom Mann: 20:53

you know, the other thing you were talking about that stolen water I was, I was looking at that I think a little bit earlier. I'm like, Okay, what are we talking about? And basically, it's talking about something that's thrilling. It's thrilling. It's, you know, it's about doing things in secret. You know, those kinds of things. It's something it's thrilling and enticing. And that's, that's kind of you think about that, that that just just the opposite. Something ties you to what you were just talking about a moment ago. It's kind of enticing. Hose The other thing, but there's so many things in here, oh, my goodness. It's like, you know, like the seven columns or pillars that's in there, too. I was I was reading on this earlier because I was thinking about this, like, Okay, what, this is my nerd side coming out again. But somebody said something, it's like instruction, knowledge, understanding, discretion, counsel to reproof, there's like a book written on it or something. And I thought, that's, that's wisdom. That's, that's what you gain from wisdom or, or it's part of wisdom. So there's so many, I don't know, just deep stuff in it said, Well, let go.

Rick Tarrant: 22:03

Let's bring it to a practical level. Because I'm not a Bible teacher, you're not a Bible teacher, you know, I'm, I'm an ex radio guy. Voiceover guy audio production, like you say, microphones snob, and you're kind of you're kind of in the same department. So you know, I don't bring a whole lot of authority here in terms of, you know, I couldn't tell you what the Greek and the Hebrew and the exit Jesus from the, you know, I can't even spell Deuteronomy, I mean, so. But what I do know they'll check is is kind of like the book of Proverbs, warnings and examples. So there have been chapters in my life that are warnings, hopefully, to my children, and to anybody who wants to listen. But then there have also been times that I made right choices. And I know, for you, too. So I'm just curious, is there a chapter in your life you'd want to delve into that you had to navigate and maybe, you know, maybe the waters were a little treacherous and wisdom came to your rescue at some point?

Tom Mann: 23:01

Very much. So. Um, you and I've talked a lot about this, because you've been down the roads too. And that that's kind of a I think, I think we all have, there's one point in my life. And I think I had had a similar story to Rick's mine happened before Rick did. Rick's hit. So mine was all of a sudden, I had a wife that up and left me and didn't want anything to do with me, essentially, is what happened. I didn't know a lot of things were going on with her. And then I wound up going through bankruptcy lost everything I had went to the point of trying to commit suicide twice. Tom interventions, I mean, amazing interventions that happen. And literally just don't want to live. It's kind of like when you lose all your bearings. And for me, it's like, everything was just pouring out of me. And I didn't, you know, I knew God was there. And he was because I saw things happening. And yet it was bad. And I wondered why why would you let these just happen to me? I mean, why would this happen? I, I had everything. Kind of like you I was at a point where there was money, there was everything else flowing, everything was working. Everything stopped working. And you just look up going, Why? Why? And so I got to that point. But what was interesting to me when you go through that, everything did turn around. It was the waiting. That was so hard. And it's something it taught me about patience. The second thing was, I realized that God is more concerned, I guess, about reaching others, and the depths of my soul than he is necessarily for my happiness every minute of the day. In other words, happiness and joy are two different things in my my book. I don't think I understood the difference before that. The other thing was I had to learn how to forgive. And, you know, I know you you learn this too. You had to learn this. We both went through something. Part of it was I didn't realize and outwardly I'm a very forgiving, happy, whatever person but I didn't know how to forgive because, you know, to whom, you know, for me, I was one of the kids that never really got in trouble. I could, you know, I was a virgin when I got married I was all these things, you know, you could go through and check off the list that was me. But you know what, I did have a problem. You can say this was forgiving people and you want it was the first thing was learning to forgive my ex wife. I had no idea how much resentment I had. And somebody would say justifiably so I had people to church with casiotone, we pray for justice. Well, in my mind, that meant, what did that mean? That meant for me to pray for something to happen to her for revenge, it was not justice. It was my justice. It wasn't God's. But you know, she went through all kinds of things herself. And now it's a wonderful relationship. I'm remarried, though, and my wife is good friends with my current wife, it's the funniest thing. Kids a lot of restoration, not the way I thought it would be. We always pray for restoration and things happen differently. Like you, someone spoke into my life. There's a dog, by the way.

Rick Tarrant: 26:14

So when spoken about this podcast was going to the dogs.

Tom Mann: 26:17

Yeah, it was enhanced already. So it's, it's something somebody spoken to me and literally, which I'd never experienced in my life. And all those things happen that this good friend even mentioned to me, he was a pastor, and in perfect detail, and everything that can restored. And it's an amazing thing, what God does, and part of that was learning how to forgive. I remember one time I was reading during the time I was going through this, I read the passage, the verses right after the Lord's Prayer, you know, it says, forgive those who trespass against us, you know, it right after the Lord's Prayer, what does it say? The way you forgive others the same way, your heavenly Father will forgive you. And that hit me through my chest, hit me just so deep inside. And what I read from that was, Tom, you know, I can't really, it's like, my forgiveness can't flow to you. Unless you who claim to be my son and hold my name. If you can't forgive, you have to forgive like I do. What does that mean? That doesn't mean to continue to be abused. If you're being abused or something like that. What it means is you have to let that go. And understand that God loves that person just as much and what's great, her life became restored. Wonderful example, had things happened to her. And I think when she went through about with cancer, I think before that would have prayed and justice that she would get it after that. I was like, no, no, that's not what I want. That's not what I want. And so it really turned around for me. And that was that was a thing, God taught me. Forgiveness. That was the big thing. The second thing was really trusting Him. And realizing that, you know, my plans, I plan things a little bit differently, you know, then maybe God wants it I want I want the color red, but maybe he's prepared blue for me. And am I willing to accept that? No, no, that's God's will. Because I know, you know, I had that perfect. You know, we call that perfect will thing that I was looking go down a straight line. Well, life does this. And you know, God is the one who's the author of perfection. We're not. And it's total surrender. And I think that was my thing to surrender. The things that were good. And my mom said years ago, she said, you're like Joseph, I thought, yeah, he became the whatever, you know, the prime minister of Egypt, and he was second in command. And what I didn't understand was that God took him through a trip. And I began studying Joseph again, that hit me, that God took him through a trip to change him to prepare him for what he had for him in the future. Because Joseph wasn't usable until that point. And sometimes I think we, when bad things or negative things come into our lives, we think that we've done something wrong. Or we think that God hates us or he's not listening. And it could be he's preparing us for something very different. Sometimes. That's what happens in those tragedies because Jesus said, and this life you will have trouble what he said that would be encouraged what I've overcome the world. We often forget that and that's not being negative when you say that, that's not counting God's promises because I do but even in these situations, his promises are true. And some of us I like maybe you and I, we have to probably be taken to the woodshed just a little bit. But you know, it's a kind woodshed, it's not it's not, but it's so wonderful because on the flip side of this, the relationships more than a relationship, you know more than just the things we say. And we do. It's deep. And you know what the cool thing about it, he's still changing me. He's still working on me, I want to arrive until I seem to face to face. So, in a nutshell, I guess I guess that would be it. You got to do this, Rick, you know,

Rick Tarrant: 30:21

wow, I'm not up to date you You've brought a wealth. I didn't want to interrupt it, you just have brought up so many things that I hadn't even hadn't even considered a lot of stories. They're, like you I had to come to that point of as upset and affirming words, before I had to come to the point of forgiving the person that hurt me. I had to forgive God, why did you let this happen? And the point I had to forgive me for being such a man, a man of foolishness that didn't see some of the warning signs that were leading to my demise. And I chose to, you know,

Tom Mann: 30:56

that, you know, that third one, me, I think, was the hardest thing to get over with. That was last, because I had, you know, I think I expect perfection in me. You know, my work, my everything else and all these things. And for some reason, I didn't meet the mark. I don't know where that Mark came from. But I didn't meet the mark. I mean, I lost all this money. I think you've talked about this, when you had money flowing in it all went away. I did things foolishly I look back on it. But you know, I go back now, you know, I'm close to 60 years old, and I look back at my 2030s I just did young whippersnappers. I didn't have it all together my mind. I would you know, I'd love to take this mine and put it in my younger body, but it doesn't work that way. So, you know, yes. I think that's the thing that third when you were talking about forgiving yourself for being stupid, I guess that was my big thing for not seeing things coming

Rick Tarrant: 31:53

home. And again, this renewing your mind process is taking off the old man. And I was talking to our friend Rick Osborne who helped us do the renew your mind masters class that we we have here in new words. And we were I think it was last night. Yeah, you know, sometimes I put on that that old man and I just don't like the way it feels it's really scratchy and irritates me. So it's like put off the old man and put on, you know, put on Jesus put on Jesus. And, and and coming to that point where we realize it's not about how well we perform how well we do. It's about letting Jesus do his thing through us. You know, Thy kingdom come, thy will be done in this body. It isn't. As it isn't heaven, so to speak. The other thing you brought out was about Joseph, I hadn't really, I've often thought about Joseph too. In fact, early on, when I was telling my story, in online community, as I mentioned that I had been, it had been 17 years in the wilderness. And my friend Chris works said Rick 17 years, let's call it time served. And someone else said 17 years. That's how long Joseph was from the pit to the interesting, isn't it? I don't I haven't quite found that in the Bible. But I'm assuming he went from being a teenager to a man probably close to 30. I would guess that sounds about right. But what you said was that, you know, you got me thinking he was probably the fair haired child. I mean, come on. He was Daddy's favorite. He had the favorites. And you know, the older brothers kind of despised him, and I'm sure he must have walked around with some sense of maybe cockiness or arrogance. You know, Daddy's favorite. And I don't know that he had to be humbled. But he certainly had to be prepared, as you said, to be the leader that he became.

Tom Mann: 33:40

And he learned to forgive you think about that. He forgave Yeah, I'm sure that was a process with him. That wasn't like he was ready to forgive his brother

Rick Tarrant: 33:49

and he was weeping. Yeah, it wasn't there to seek to exact judgment. So yeah, you bring and what what leads to that in the New Testament, I think is where Paul says, We comfort others with the concern we ourselves have received. So if you've never gone through hardship, ever been in the pit, then you're not even prepared for the palace. If all you've ever known is daddy's good favor. You're kind of a jerk or at least I mean, if you're wired like me and Tom now I'm sure that I'm sure that Vicki and a little

Tom Mann: 34:19

bit that way, in the early years, because but yeah, it's like you're we've said this before,

Rick Tarrant: 34:26

you know, well in our so if you're listening to the podcast, we are recording before a live zoom audience are affirming words of abundance family going out to YouTube and Facebook. And in the Zoom Room we have I don't know who's raised their hand Vicki or Judith, they're both in Boston and they're they're both on on screen. So do you have a question for Tom or a comment to add to the conversation? If so, unmute myself.

Unknown: 34:52

Rick, I'd like to share what came to my heart. As you're reading chapter nine. I'm reading from The New American Bible and it has a heading and it says woman wisdom issues her invitation. And I find this a choice choose wisdom or choose foolishness and weighty wisdom lays out a path for us. And if tells us if we choose bullishness, it will end badly. So I I really find all the chapters are an invitation. But West yesterday where it says Son keep my words, and I hear son or daughter, I invite you words. So I see everything is an invitation.

Rick Tarrant: 35:51

That's powerful, be your a son or a daughter.

Tom Mann: 35:54

I love that that it's true. It's an invitation. It's a choice. It's a choice. And it's it's it's God. We're talking about that you I said that thing about the fear of the Lord of freeze that we often get missed. That is God's invitation is he wants to freely give us wisdom direction and and in choosing a particular way. We honor Him and there's blessings in that it is true. It's an invitation, what Saul being talked about as an invitation. It's an invite to be foolish, or it's not really an invite. You just lapse into that I think, but the invite to be wise is an amazing tool. That's that's really nice.

Rick Tarrant: 36:33

Well, I think it comes back to the two voices too. There's that critical voice that negative voice that tells you what a loser you are and why don't you just go? Why don't you just forget this walk anyway, on the shoulder? Yeah. And then it's a voice of wisdom over here sin, which is not sort of God, not so fast. You know, and again, we talk about confronting voice with voice. So we know who wants to steal, kill, and destroy, and keep you from walking in everything that the Lord has for you. And we need to counter that voice. And that's the only one that will will be speaking out the truth. Judith again? Or is it Vicki this time?

Vicki Bey: 37:09

It's Vicki this time, because I can't let a podcast go by without chiming in. At least when it comes to wisdom. So when Tom was talking about choices have there was something red and something blue? Sorry, I don't. I was I was over there mixing better. Um, but it came to my that there was as a as a user experience developer, we're always asking why, why? Why do you want to do it this way? What are you looking at? What is Why do you choose red? Why do you want to hold on to it? What, why? What's the bottom line? You know? And I think that that God knows the bottom line. So when we say Oh, I really want that red balloon, and he gives you a blue one. The blue one happens actually satisfies you more than what you imagined the red one would have. And the red one would have disappointed you. Right? So I think like, God knows all the whys underneath, and actually the blue one has candy inside it. So when it pops, then you get candy. And it's all wonderful, and you're so much happier. And the red one was only a bit of helium that'll go flying up by the trees. Yeah, you know, like, God knows the whys. So when I'm tracking when he seems to disappoint us, I think that there's usually another another reason not because he wants to disappoint us. But rather that there's something better we didn't know that we wanted, or something better. We didn't know that this option actually had or controlled.

Tom Mann: 38:47

Can I put the very practically in a very hard way. You know, I wanted when I prayed for restoration of my marriage and of my family so hard, which you should. This was after everything had happened, but didn't happen that way. What happened was is that I wound up meeting my current wife and that's a huge God thing how that happened. And God restored the family with our kids. Same situation had been I had been in and it was amazing. And through that relationship, believe it or not, the restoration came with my first wife, and you'd want for me to forgive one thing. The other thing was is that she actually changed she came back and you know, it didn't happen the way I wanted it. God had a bigger plan because I have like two new daughters that came through my current wife. I have you know now have like six grandkids none of this would have happened and my kids were blessed through my my wife now and it's so amazing because I wanted the red balloon. And because I you know Yes, that's the ideal, but that's not what happened. But God had a bigger plan, he wanted to reach more than just make me happy. I mean, you don't I mean, just to make me get what I want to get to get. And not that that that wasn't a wonderful thing to ask for. But I got more. But also, there were things my ex wife had to walk through herself. Now she's has a wonderful relationship. There's a lot of restoration there. And it was differently what I thought, but God had a bigger plan. So that's, you know, that's what we're talking about balloons there. But that's the same thing. Even with things in our life, I had to learn that part of it was learning to trust God and His ways instead of my narrow little thinking, because I could quote you the Scripture and tell you this and tell you that I had no idea he had a bigger plan, because I was so narrowly focused, I guess, on me, and what I wanted instead of like, okay, you want something. And I don't know that when you said that, that just really hit home with me, because that's really what happened in my life, I saw that I just, I live that. And to this day, there's such a blessing because God had a bigger plan than anything I could have imagined. I mean, I could spend three hours telling you what he did, through that the people that were reached, we're talking about our extended family, that also, you know, gain healing, and lives change. So, and all these sides, and it touch more than just one family, but another family and another. So I guess I'm a little excited about that. Because that's, that's what we're talking about that I mean, again, it's amazing the wisdom of God. And him we gave you your true

Vicki Bey: 41:52

heart's desire. You know, without even knowing it. I didn't know.

Tom Mann: 41:58

I didn't know I wanted a blue balloon. You know, I had no idea.

Rick Tarrant: 42:03

Wait a minute, I better be careful talking about redheads and brunettes and stuff. So I didn't marry redhead. So I didn't marry redhead Come to think of it. So I didn't like to get a I didn't get a red, red, blue. So I wanted to read something that I came across this morning in my quiet time. And I think it's germane last night. Again, I was on a call with Rick Osborn. He does that program while again the renew your mind masterclass, but also a thing called transform you. And he was so passionate about his love for Jesus and just how good he is to us and how he wants good things for us. I mean, sometimes he does what he calls the Snoopy dance. And then other times he's crying. And I I told him, I said, I feel a bit convicted. Because you know, your heart is so tender. And I sometimes feel mine is hard. And I the Lord spoke to me, let me just read this morning, Moses was charged with bringing this is interesting. We're talking about Joseph, who actually basically sold his people into slavery if you really want to get down to it. But then 400 years later, which is also interesting, because that was prophesied to Abraham that this was gonna happen. But that's God had a plan. Yeah, God had a plan. He was gonna he wasn't caught off guard. So here's Moses, and he's called to bring these children out of a land of slavery, which is all they've known. It's 400 years. I mean, how many generations have come and gone? Right? And so they don't, they don't know no better as we, as we say, down south. And then the Lord calls Moses and he says, let's see, what all do I have highlighted? Well, I'm just gonna paraphrase it. He's telling them, Look, Moses, Go tell these people, I'm gonna take you out with my with my hand, I'm gonna lift you out with an outstretched arm, I'm gonna deliver you, you know, it's, you know, I've got good things for you. I've got good plans for you, right? And Moses goes and tells the people what God has said, and the version of the Bible I was reading this morning, it must have been must have been on my iPad. In the Christian Standard Bible, it said. They heard what Moses said. But they didn't receive it, because of a broken spirit. And as I dug into that, it was because of anguish in their heart. All they had ever known was brokenness. And so they couldn't receive this word from God. And as I was sitting there, I felt like the Lord was saying, you didn't have a hardened heart. You had a broken heart. And when your spirit is broken, you suffered that when you when your wife left and went bankrupt, and all the financial stuff that came and the humiliation when the TV cameras showed up. Yeah, are you? Oh, yeah, we talked about that. But you know, your heart was broken, your spirit was crushed. And it's like, how can you receive. So I think step number one on this journey, as we meditate in the word is let it heal our heart and get around people that can help get that heart healed. And when you start seeing that heart healing, then you can start believing the truth again, instead of there was a season of my life where I'd hear the truth. And I go, maybe for you, but not for me, but definitely said that over and over and over is crushed. Yeah.

Tom Mann: 45:30

You know, you're talking about that healing. And that time. It's just so amazing to me, because, you know, I was crushed like, you were to the point that I believe God didn't have anything for me anymore. And that's, I think that's when I went the depths of despair. And then that's when I was attending that church, and which is another story that I attended a church, a denomination group I'd never been a part of is kind of scary to me. And there was this guy up front. And I remember I was everybody was so excited that he was what I call reading people's mail and do all these things. And I thought, you know, this is ridiculous. You know, if God has something to me, he's gonna call me out. And I started walking out the door. And when I did, this pastor actually called me out in front of this whole church. He said, You and the orange God has a message for you. And at first I roll my eyes. I'm like, Yeah, right. You have no idea. And then he started. And it was things that were amazing. Because they were, what I was thinking, where I was going, I decided I would never go back into media and doing what I'm doing right now. I was done. I was totally done with it. And he called me out. It's interesting, because it's like that passage. Again. It's just, it's like, he reached down. And I learned to understand him. I learned I guess what that fear of the Lord and the wisdom of God is and that's why I think he poured into me after that. It's just it's just amazing that I don't know that we get off in tangent with that. And by the way, I can I plug something real quick here. Sure. Um, for those who who may want to hear Rick's story, he's done in different ways. And even my story, you can check out i co host a podcast with Danny Senate, who's a friend Danny who does the voice, it's called Brave conversations. And Rick story, my story's also there, if you want to hear that if the are come apart, so I would say and if you want to know where we come from, and kind of what God dinner lives, that's a big thing, because you know, it. I, I remember, I saw Rick and the depths of his despair. He came up this way to visit and I went to dinner with with Rick. And, Rick, you know, you remember that we talked about this. But wow. I could totally relate, because I just been through those feelings and those thoughts. And I would call it your darkest hour. I remember it was just dark. That's all you could see. And it's amazing that what you're doing right now, is how God has taken all that forward. And it's funny, all of you sitting here now that are listening to us watching and participating. That's because to be honest with you, as I say, God had an incredible plan for Rick bigger than he imagined. And he's reaching administering people. Yes. The guy on the radio that talks behind the microphone. Yeah. Does the production it has the the weird squirrely ways like I do his creativity. That's what God does with people. And now that's a blessing to everyone. So, you know, I don't know i It's amazing. Just just going through these passages and these affirming words, it's, it's me, it's a promise, it's a wonderful, just to understand how God really truly works and loves us so much. He'll reach down to get us in our depths, he will sometimes allow us to walk down some roads, some of our own. And he allows us to do that. But it's amazing because he wants us to to be wise and follow his wisdom and his ways. It's an amazing thing,

Rick Tarrant: 49:11

another thread here, and that is, you know, Abraham had a word from the Lord. Look up at the stars. That's how many descendants I'm going to give you. And yeah, right. And I had a word from the Lord. Yeah, before all of my calamity started that I was going to go through something. And I had to go through it in order to show others how to drive away the birds that come to, to steal. And you know, and in a church service, the pastor calls you out and has a word it was like the Lord didn't leave us. totally hopeless. It was like, Would you please listen, there is a there is a point of light here and I want you to pay attention. And there was something that happened to me right after everything crashed and a ladies sought me out and I share this because I think this is probably true for you as well. But I had no she had been at CBN. And I had done a project called words of encouragement. And I think they were supposed I think she was talking to me about actually being on the 700 Club, right with Pat Robertson or, or feature segment about this project that never happened, for whatever reason, I don't recall. But so that had happened years before. And you know, maybe 10 years later, she seeks me out. And I was like, I hardly even remember this lady. And she found me and she listened to my story. And she said, Well, I'm not sure why the Lord had me find you except to tell you this. And she read, Rick, the Spirit of the Lord is upon you. Because the Lord has anointed you, Rick, to preach good tidings to the poor, he has sent you to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of prison to those who are bound to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God. And of course, now I understand that vengeance is not on our it is on our enemy, the one enemy that we both share, and that's where the vengeance is. But I would say that to you, as well, you know, the Lord has anointed you to bring good news, and to bind up the brokenhearted and to and to heal and to and to bring, as Paul said, the message of reconciliation and restoration. And so I put that hope out there for and for you listening on the podcast or for hear live or on replay that. He ain't done with you. We're still here. And I want to before I wrap up this call Tom, I wanted to invite our friend John Umstead, who looks like he's having breakfast in the cookie factory. Because John, you always have words of wisdom, and I wouldn't want to let a I also wanted to introduce you personally to my friend Tom man, Tom Manny. John, John Umstead, who has been a real firming words. And if you're awesome cookie, man,

Tom Mann: 52:00

I've heard so much about you. Yes.

Jon Umsted: 52:03

You know, Tom, when you popped on, I remember when Danny, I think it was last year during a frame of words. Especially who's Danny much. And I remember you guys side by side on the zoom. And like, oh, yeah, he's got the velvety voice to no wonder

Tom Mann: 52:19

why Rick is friends with him. So it would Rick is the master. That's the thing. He's Yoda. Oh, well,

Rick Tarrant: 52:26

you know, but let me just say this, you know, my camera. Shaking my great camera is greatly improved over a year ago, my lights are improved over a year ago. Every the sound and lights are improved. All because of this one gentleman right here. Tom man, when I was looking for that one button solution, he told me about a piece of equipment, you know, where I can switch from one thing to another without having to, you know, spend more money, John, that's all it is. That's what it's about. That's true. Okay, I'll be quiet. Hopefully,

Jon Umsted: 52:54

you hopefully you use your affiliate link Tom so that you can benefit from

Tom Mann: 52:58

I don't have any that I give it away for free, you know, monopolize these things. But no, no, hang on.

Jon Umsted: 53:05

Here your introduction. And then my wife called so I missed the middle part of it. But one thing that really struck me was your story that you shared, when you were coming up? And Rick's influence that he hasn't, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I appreciate you sharing that. Because we've done a lot of walking in this past year. of it last February, started this journey about affirming words, and there's other things that we've gone through. But for me, it was so good. Not for me. But for Rick, and I have the requisite introducing somebody last week, and the Lord gave me this picture of Rick is now going to be put in front of people, leading people helping people. And you know, you, you guys have been on a similar journey. But there's others that not have not been on that haven't had this pursuit that haven't gone through these soul searching moments, you know, where the Lord is not. When Jesus promises those things. They're not predictions, right? They what Jesus is saying is, I am warning you that this is going to happen so that when it happens, you're not surprised. Right? Right. And so it's not it's not a prediction. It's just saying, this is I'm giving you a heads up, guys, this is what's going to happen. And I think there's so many are about that due to fear. Yeah. Can be a friend Rick and I were Rick and I were talking offline that I see him being one of these people to kind of gather people back together people back from the past, to be able to gather them together in a way that they weren't able to do before. It's kind of like a reconciliation and redemption project in this media space. And so when you were sharing that with Rick, that was it was just highlighted that that view is implanted in Rick, that that's how Rick thinks about himself that he sees himself as the one going forward to carry out and to do these things. Yes, the backstory. Yep, that's how we got here. But this is where we're at today. And this is where God has him. So thank you for sharing that.

Tom Mann: 55:20

Oh, no, no problem. But it's, it's good. I want to say something for those who are. Well, Rick's not talking. You know. He's like me. You know, one thing, Rick has been an innovator through the years, when I that's part of the attraction I had, when I learned from him early on, doing the things that I do now. He's been an innovator. And I'm gonna say this, because I think people need to understand that he what he's doing right now. It's, that's been something that's always been part of Rick's makeup, and also, and I think, but he's had to temper that, and I think God's worked on in with that. I've seen that as like, because I had to be tempered. But the cool thing is that the God, again, has to remove some of ourselves. And a Rick's added a lot of himself totally surgically removed. I have to, you know, so that we can go forward. And it's about him, you know, it's about God, what God wants, and it's also about others. It's not about us. And that's something I've had to learn to because my younger years, it was a lot about me, you know, moving forward, getting successful doing all those things. And then finally, it's like, wait, no, it's not about me, it's about the gifts God's given me to reach others the gifts God's given me to, to serve others, and it doesn't matter, you may not be one who's on radio, TV, or do the things that we do. But God's given you a gift. And those are the gifts and those are the things he wants to use. And, and sometimes he has to, you know, for some of us that are hard headed you have, he has to surgically remove the things that are blocking that. But to me, right now, what's going on with this thing we're doing now, it's, it's kind of amazing, because it's been an opportunity, and a COVID, all these things hit and all of a sudden, we're able to do these things, these things are the norm right now. And every one of you are being touched by something that God has done at Rick's live all of our lives. And and you're to take that forward to so it's kind of a it's just an amazing thing God does. And so we're sitting here, you know, going through Proverbs, and affirming words, but it's even deeper than that. It's like so that we can be built up to go forward. This isn't about self, it's that we're going forward with with those words, these things, we're talking about the scriptures, these passages. And I think it's a great ministry and Rick's this, this is really, this is really good. I've been very thankful to be a part of it.

Rick Tarrant: 57:55

But it's all about again, renewing you must do the rapid restoring the heart. And, and as Romans 12 says, as presenting ourselves to the Lord as who he sees us, and He delights in us, Jeff and I says he rejoices over us with singing. He's not the old judge up there with a cane knocking us in the head when we screw up. He rejoices over assessing, he rejoices with great joy the Lord sings and it's like, wow, I want to hear that song. Loud and clear. Right? So and we get there by speaking the truth and not dwelling on the lie. And boy, if I if I could change one thing about, you know, the wilderness experience, I wished I'd gotten into community and gone through the renewing your mind process a lot sooner, because it would have gotten me out a lot faster. So if that's how we drive away the birds, and that's be about speaking the truth. Tom, would you pray us out?

Tom Mann: 58:52

Sure. Absolutely. Father, we thank you so much for today. And just for everyone that is on line and those who are listening through the podcast, listening through different ways, or viewing this, we just ask that you work in each of our lives and understand that again, you have a plan and you want us to choose your wisdom and sometimes that is waiting sometimes that is going through some things that you want to teach us and we need to be teachable always and open our hearts and minds to the words you had for us. And again, I encourage and I thank you for everyone here and that you work in their lives. And and even those hard times come that you that they need to really realize that you are walking it through with them. In other words, in my journey, you were there the whole way and you're there through everything. And for those of us who who are still walking journeys and like myself, learn to be teachable, open minded, that we are pliable we must be like babes, we we have to keep constantly learning and understanding and Father, just keep our minds and hearts open and to the reality of what you want us to do for everyone. And again, we thank you for the words today, thank you for these affirming words, you're giving each and every one of us and that we could all share. It's been a pleasure. And again, thank you for knowing you for having you with us. And having that Spirit living inside of us. And just praise your name today. Thank you for all of this in Jesus name, amen.

Rick Tarrant: 1:00:27

Amen. And I didn't even tell the folks that you just finished up producing a big music video production for Big Daddy Weave. So we'll have to talk about that on our our next our next poster. Yeah, so and it's, it's mannvoice.com right

Tom Mann: 1:00:44

with two n mannvoice.com. And yeah,

Rick Tarrant: 1:00:48

so if anyone would like to join us here in the Zoom Room, just go to affirming wisdom.com and learn more about this crazy tribe of people who want to speak affirming words. So join us next time tomorrow at 10am Elvis time if you're here live and on the podcast and whenever you feel like downloading it, I suppose. And let me leave you with this. Speak the word renew your mind. Transform Your Life.