Proverbs 16 - Ed DeGarmo

Show intro: 0:03

Welcome to the affirming words podcast, where you're encouraged to speak the word renew your mind and transform your life. Here's your host Rick Tarrant.

Rick Tarrant: 0:14

Welcome to the affirming words of abundance studio, if you will, for, for lack of a lack of a better word. Actually, it's my voiceover radio production studio. But welcome to affirming words, we are recording before a live zoom audience today. And we are all about, well, speaking the truth out loud and getting it down in our hearts so that we can renew our minds and be all that God intended for us to be and quit carrying around some of that baggage. So if you'd like to learn more about our journey into affirming wisdom this month, just go to affirming wisdom.com. And let's pray. Father, we just ask that you go before us today in the conversation as we seek to know you more, to know you better, to go deeper to have your wisdom and to renew our minds with your thoughts and your truth about who we were made to be in our purpose that You created us for from the foundation of the world. So we just ask it in Jesus name, amen. Well, my guest today is Mr. Ed Degarmo, is a co founder of the 1970s Christian rock band DeGarmo and key. He also was a partner, founder of the contemporary Christian music label forefront records. And his biography is entitled rebel for God faith, business and rock and roll and it chronicles his 17 year career in DMK and is worth discovering some of the biggest names in modern contemporary Christian music like go I don't know DC talk comes to mind was DC talk the first artists that you and Dana signed to forefront?

Ed DeGarmo: 1:43

There were a couple more that came right before DC talk. You know, Dana and I, Dana key and I made solo records for forefront were the first releases on the label, I did a record called feels good to be forgiven. And he did a record I think called journey, the journey. And those records did really well for us and kind of set us up as a record label. And then came DC talk. So

Rick Tarrant: 2:08

So I missed that. I do remember I do remember those albums, though. And the first time you and I met as I'm probably gonna go out on a limb and say it was that Arden recording studio? Well, it

Ed DeGarmo: 2:21

might have been, you know, I, when you sent me a note and said that, hey, you were doing this series and asked me to be part. First time I've ever seen you with gray hair, Rick and I was how come what's happened with him? He's gotten older. And then I looked at myself as it will it

Rick Tarrant: 2:40

goes around. Yes, there's this this gray hair thing but you know, I'm very comforted by when I read in Scripture that the correct it's a crown of glory is a is a is a man's gray hair. And I was also comforted yesterday, knowing that we can flourish in the courts of God and that we can still be fruitful even unto old age, the Psalmist said, so

Ed DeGarmo: 3:02

I think we did meet it, art it. And for those of you that don't know, art recordings is a legendary recording studio in Memphis, where I mean some major major projects had been done there, like Led Zeppelin made a record there, you know, and James Taylor is recorded there, Bob gold, easy top stuff, Stevie Ray Vaughn. I mean, just the list goes on and on. So I became involved with him in the mid 70s. And we probably didn't meet through the first

Rick Tarrant: 3:31

Yeah, I think your record label had hired me to produce a radio special for some unknown reason. It was very early on in the years of CCM and also in me, I wanted to produce things for Christian radio. And at that time, as you know, there really weren't many stations to be had. So this was so just to put it in context for for our friends listening or for our friends watching in the Zoom Room. This was the kind of music I was listening to. Back when I was in high school Don McLean American Pie. We had Carole King's these but part of my vinyl records Carole King's tapestry album, you know, Elton done, John, don't shoot me. I'm just the piano player. And then, you know, then come along some upstarts that make music that sorts sounds like that, but it's about Jesus. And it's this motley crew called the DeGarmo and key band, and I was hired to do a radio special. And I still have it around here in my library. In fact, this one, this one is a later radio special we did and this was still in the shrink wrap hadn't been opened. But I remember one thing that you and Dana told me, and y'all were y'all were very comedic pair, I must say. And when when you were describing your early days of bringing this thing called Christian rock music to two churches, you said, Yeah, we used to play on roller skates. You can remember the punch line. Probably get away. You know, he said we played on roller skates so we could get to churches quickly. And Dana would say, Ed, why are that? Why are those elders coming down front and you'd say, I think they want to lay hands on us.

Ed DeGarmo: 5:07

Sooner or later, they all wanted to lay hands on us in those days, it was, you know, I would tell the artists that I worked with later in life, like John Foreman was Switchfoot some of those early stories of Christian music, and they just couldn't comprehend. You know, how controversial it was in the early 70s To play rock music. And some of the rappers that I worked with Lecrae and Kurt Franklin, later in life told me the same stories happen to them. In the Gospel Church, you know, oh, yeah,

Rick Tarrant: 5:42

I remember you know, I worked at W dia for about five years, which was the first all black radio station in America. And they had a gospel show every morning from three to six hosted by brother bless my bones, Theo Wade, get out, you know, you ain't got no money. And brother Wade, what a character but we he got, he got flack whenever he played Andre crouch.

Ed DeGarmo: 6:05

Yeah, Andre was one of the pioneers of that kind of music in that genre. Of course, you know, they've been around for a while. But you talk to Andre and some of the hurdles that he faced and the challenges that he faced in the early years. And on the other side, Bill Gaither, did the same thing. You know, there were churches that that did not want to hear his eyes on the sparrow. And he touched me because it was in a Fanny Crosby, him. And so we had our version of that in the 70s, and 80s. And it's kind of leveled out now. I think, worship music. Interesting enough. And I worked with a lot of artists that were popular in that genre, like Chris Tomlin and Hillsong. United in different ones. worship music is more broadly accepted. Because it's lyric content basically is to God and is not near as fingerpointing and didactic, if you will, as Christian music can be sometimes, you know, Christian music is all well, I used to be like this. Now, I'm like this, if you're living the old way, you need to look at the new way. And so there's a lot of conviction that goes on with CCM music that does not exist in worship music for good or bad. I'm not saying that's a good thing, necessarily, but it loses its edge, I think, in some ways to the mainstream, and therefore, it's more acceptable.

Rick Tarrant: 7:37

Yeah, I remember early on when all of you know cuz I produced that Christian music countdown. So it was kind of up with what was popular on the radio. And there was a season where all the songs seem to be about you know, life experiences, whether that was good or bad, or, you know, it could be I'm in I'm at the bottom of the of the Grand Canyon, or, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, doing well, but it was I remember talking to one of your early forefront artists once in an interview, named Rebecca St. James, he was talking about this, she was talking about singing songs with the vertical lyric is what she called it the vertical lyric. And, and I instantly, you know, as a worshiper, and a worship leader resonated with what she was saying. And there was there was a season where worship music wasn't even really welcome on Christian radio stations, which seems odd to even say now, but

Ed DeGarmo: 8:28

a lot of it was recorded live, you know, because worship music is a congregational form of music, be sung by, by lots of people at the same time. And you know, that a worship artist, it's kind of a strange twist of praise if you think about it, but when a worship artist knows they're being totally successful is when they disappear, you know, from the stage and it's just the congregation singing the song or the group singing the song. So because of its recording and live recording in the early days radio stayed away from from playing worship music. Of course, that's all come around 360 now

Rick Tarrant: 9:12

Yeah, then people like Chris Tomlin started packaging in a more palatable three minute and 32nd format and, and well crafted songs, you know, early on, of course, we're getting down to Christian music history here. How about if we jump into proverbs real quick and read through? Proverbs 16. And because I don't want I don't want that to I want that to be at the at the forefront, if you will, to unintended, no pun intended. Well, maybe it was. So you want to start us off to a few verses. Now. Proverbs

Ed DeGarmo: 9:41

16 starts with two humans belong the plans of the heart, but from the Lord comes the proper answer of the tongue. All a person's ways seem pure to them. But motives are weighed by the Lord. Commit to the Lord, whatever you do, and he will establish your plans.

Rick Tarrant: 10:02

That's one of my favorite verses there. The Lord works out everything to its proper end, even the wicked for a day of disaster. The Lord detest all the proud of heart. Be sure of this, they will not go unpunished. Through love and faithfulness sin is atone for through the fear of the Lord evil is avoided.

Ed DeGarmo: 10:23

Good stuff. When the Lord takes pleasure in anyone's way he causes their enemies to make peace with him. Better a little with righteousness and much gain within justice and their hearts. humans plan their course. But the Lord establishes their steps.

Rick Tarrant: 10:43

The lips of a king speak as an Oracle, and his mouth does not betray justice. Honest scales and balances belong to the Lord. All the weights in the bag are of his making. Kings detest wrongdoing for a throne is established through righteousness.

Ed DeGarmo: 11:01

Kings take pleasure in honest lips they value the one who speaks what is right. But king's wrath is a messenger of death. But the wise will appease it. When it kings face brightens, it means life. His favorite is like a rain cloud in spring.

Rick Tarrant: 11:19

Love that favor. How much better to get wisdom than gold to get inside rather than silver. The highway of the upright avoids evil, those who guard their ways preserve their lives.

Ed DeGarmo: 11:32

Pride goes before destruction a haughty spirit before a fall. Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed than to share plunder with a crowd. Whoever gives heed to instruction prospers and bless it is the one who trust in the Lord.

Rick Tarrant: 11:49

The wise and heart are called discerning and gracious words promote instruction. Prudence is a fountain of life to the prudent but folly brings punishment to fools. The hearts of the wise make their mouths prudent and their lips promote instruction. I like all this theme on the lips and the words and things that come out of our mouths. Yeah, gracious words

Ed DeGarmo: 12:11

are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and eating to the bones. There is a way that appears to be right. But in the end it leads to debt. The appetite of labourers work for them their hunger drives them on

Rick Tarrant: 12:26

a scoundrel plots evil and on their lips. It is like a scorching fire. A perverse person stirs up conflict and a gossip separates close friends. A violent person entices their neighbor and leads them down a path that is not good.

Ed DeGarmo: 12:44

Whoever winks with their eyes, plotting perversity, whoever purses their lips has been on evil. Gray here is a crown of splendor. There we go, Rick.

Rick Tarrant: 12:54

Now there we are, is our verse for the day. It is

Ed DeGarmo: 12:58

attained in the way of righteousness. Better a patient person than a warrior one was self control than one who takes a city.

Rick Tarrant: 13:08

The lot is cast into the lap, but it's very decision is from the Lord. And so much rich, so much rich wisdom in there. I guess I I guess that's why they call it the Book of Wisdom.

Ed DeGarmo: 13:20

Absolutely. So a lot to talk about in that chapter, man.

Rick Tarrant: 13:25

Yeah. Was there any particular direction that resonated in your heart? As you were reading through that and going, Oh, yeah. Well,

Ed DeGarmo: 13:32

I mean, the the chapter opens up with the way people make plans from our heart, but from the Lord comes to proper answer the tongue. Basically, we we make plans, the way that we see them, and then the Lord modifies our plans to fit within the grand design. It's what it seems to me all persons ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord.

Rick Tarrant: 13:58

You know, yeah, one thing that jumps out to me there is even even the word plans. I think, I know for me, and maybe some less, less wise seasons of my life. I I quit planning. But when I was a young man about the time I met you, actually, before I met you, I was a planner, I was influenced by, I guess for a season my mentor in you know, indirectly was a guy named Zig Ziglar. And his positive thinking and see you at the top and, and, you know, he was, it was a Christian message. It just wasn't cloaked in the Bible or anything. You know, it's all about the seeds of greatness are inside of you. And he inspired me to plan I remember buying his little gold planner, and one of my one of my goals, Ed was to have the number one Christian radio production company in America, whatever that meant, you know, it's like a pretty low bar. Really, I don't think there were that many, but I had goals and I started working towards them and achieving them. But it's at some point along the way, I think some of us forget to make plans to even submit to the Lord, you know, to move a sport in this life.

Ed DeGarmo: 15:04

Yeah. Well, from a very early age in our country, we were taught much more about what we're going to do, rather than who we're going to be. And who we're going to be is much more important than what we're going to do. But, you know, we start drilling into our young people early in school, what are you going to do? How are you going to work? What's your career? What are you going to do? But we don't spend as much time near as much time as who you are going to be in life? You know, how are you going to act? How are you going to follow the Lord? Are you not going to follow the Lord? And I think these verses directly talk about, I don't, I don't necessarily think it's wrong for us to make plans. In other words, I'm going to go do this, I'm going to go to college, I'm going to going to become this. But I think what these verses underscore is the importance of how that we plan according to what the Lord has, has before us. That's the way I read this.

Rick Tarrant: 16:05

And for you know, I hear you say that, and I think of the word mentorship or discipleship, and a lot of us come into, you know, the kingdom. And maybe we lack that discipleship factor, especially a lot of those of the baby boom generation. I think we were kind of rebels at heart, in fact that you know, your biography, even uses that theme. I seem to recall Dana saying something about being a yeah, we're rebels without a clue. But

Ed DeGarmo: 16:34

yeah, it's actually a Tom Petty line. Yeah.

Rick Tarrant: 16:39

But you know, I know for me, I was, I was hard for me to even listen to authority. But one of the gentlemen that I met at the Arden recording studio that we're talking about earlier, was the owner and founder John fry. And for a little background for those listening to the podcast, and also joining us in the live stream and zoom. John fry, it was a million, and he he passed away a few years ago. And when he was a teenager, he and another young man named Fred Smith started a little pirate radio station over in their parent's garage. Over here in East Memphis, I think on Grandview off of good luck. And John's interest in audio and recording and stuff started with that little radio station. I only recently learned that. And so I was fascinated with that little thing. And he went on to start a recording studio. And Fred Smith, you may have heard of his company, he went off to start something called Federal Express. FedEx, they call it it's, you know, I think it's an up and coming operation. But that's where John started in audio. And I met him at Arden. And I recall hearing these stories after when he passed have all these men that he mentored these young men who knocked on his door, and he welcomed them in to teach them the art of the recording business. And you and Dana key were to such young men where, you know,

Ed DeGarmo: 18:00

we were in one respect and another respect, I think that, you know, our relationship goes back. Before John became a believer, really, we knew John, probably about 10 or 12 years prior to him becoming a follower of Christ. And so I met John in 1973, maybe that far back 74 with a fella named Jim Dickinson, which is another local Memphis legend, which happens to be my, my wife, Susan's uncle, and Jen Dickens. No, they took Dana and I into Arden in 1974, and recorded four demos with us. And that's when I originally met John. Again, that was before John knew Jesus. And so the next several years, we interacted with him on that level. Now, interestingly, when we recorded our first album in 1977, at Arden, we became really close with John and he kind of put his arms around us and it was, I don't know that I comprehend it all back then. But, but I ended up about a year or two after that, taking care of all John's businesses, you know, and he had, he had several of them on, it was just one of many. And so, you know, I wrote his checks and went and did his books and did all that stuff. And learned how to engineer records on the side, Dana Moore, got involved with a recording studio and I was more involved. I mean, that was kind of who we were in our in our roles in DeGarmo. And key I was involved more on the business side. And John brought me into confidence on his family business, and I worked with him on that level for a while.

Rick Tarrant: 19:59

You That's interesting. I didn't know that because that was that was one area I was going to ask you about. Because when, and I'll just be, I'll just be real straight Ed, if, if I had no history with you, and I just read your bio and read your accomplishments, you know, I might be a little intimidated. Maybe I am. But I was gonna ask you who learned the business side? You know, I figured it came from running DNK you got band members to pay you got, you know, halls to, to book you got money that's got to come in and come out. But now I see that you were you really learned in John. John was just one

Ed DeGarmo: 20:33

of those guys that was born with a left brain and right brain, you know that. I mean, I love being an artist. And I love writing songs. And I love speaking to the audience. But I was also the guy that was trying to figure out how to buy another tank of gas to get to the next town.

Rick Tarrant: 20:49

Yeah, most creative type, just Oh, don't worry about we'll get there.

Ed DeGarmo: 20:52

So I was just made that way. And John saw that the Lord had gifted me in that way. And so he brought me into his confidence. But the story of John Frey becoming a believer is pretty interesting as well, because in 1972, maybe three, when Dana and I first started playing Christian music, and that, you know, that was a very organic story. We, we had been involved in a secular rock band in Memphis called globe. And the Lord saved me. And then I witness to Dana, and he came to Christ the very next day, and a mop closet, as I recall, the mop closet, and we did not get we didn't set off or set out, I should say. And in performing Christian music, we just wrote songs that talked about our faith. And the audience that will you guys are like playing Jesus rock music, they didn't call it contemporary Christian music back then. And, you know, we tried playing it in bars, and that didn't go over too well. Then we tried playing it in churches that went over worse. And there was one church in East Memphis that kind of put their arms around as East Park Baptist Church, and it was situated on the corner of Park and White Station. And we started doing these Saturday night outreach events where we sort of built a little stage out there and they had kind of a natural amphitheater in the way that the land was. And so we would play concerts out there and we would talk about what Jesus had done. Or there was a young man there in 1973, named Pat Scholes, Lewin and Pat Scholes. Yes, Louis. We call him Louis later, Pat Scholes became a believer out at East Park Baptist Church will anyway, fast forward years later, pad became one of the integral parts of art and recordings. And I think much to his efforts led John Frey to become a Christian and dedicated his life to Jesus. And I want to say that happened probably in the early 80s, maybe mid 80s. And so I knew John before and after and saw the difference and the transformation in his life. You know, and so we were we were close before he was a believer in that for some reason you mentioned his mentorship he decided to mentor Dana and I don't quite understand why, but he decided to and then of course after he became a brother in Christ, we became closer yet so

Rick Tarrant: 23:37

well, I what I loved about Arden and the ingestion of the history and all the secular music that was recorded there was that he opened the doors for for younger artists and for people like you and Dana to invite people in fact, I remember hanging out with you once when you were producing an album for a young man named Gary Chapman and he he had this you know this up and coming artists named Amy Grant that he was dating at the time and spending a whole day just working like on the last 20 seconds of a song you know, to get the notes all together and when you get behind the scenes it's like oh, it's all it's kind of glamorous and recording studios and all this but you know, after about an hour hearing the same three words over and over again it gets a little Yeah, like watching somebody paint a picture. I think

Ed DeGarmo: 24:21

a lot of Christian music came art I mean skillet came out of that movement and you know, several others recorded there through

Rick Tarrant: 24:31

Steve Wiggins and big tent revival and so we see in your bio Ed, you know, your success you pioneered DeGarmo and key you went and started forefront records then comes up you know, big record conglomerates and says hey, can we buy this from you and and then you took an executive position with EMI as I recall and their publishing division and I may get some facts off here, but from from the outside looking in, it looks like Ed DeGarmo went from glory Are you into glory to glory to glory. But I've heard the phrase along the way that says there's you go from glory to glory. But there can be hell in the hallways.

Ed DeGarmo: 25:09

Well, I mean, we read this this chapter, you know, and it talks about the proud of Heart Talk, so they won't go and punish me, I've been proud few times in my life, and a fear of the Lord evil is avoided. But we, all of us believe or suffer, all of us do. And sometimes we wish that we didn't have to, but the Lord suffered and show us the way that showed us how to properly do that, as did the Apostle Paul and Peter, and those. So we all suffer. And we all go through hard times. And the difference with being a Christian is that you have somewhere to go, you know, you know the Lord to talk to you about it. And you have a cool drink for your soul in the midst of it. But yes, I suffered many times through the years in different ways. And the book does talk a lot about success. And I did experience and still do experience a lot of success in my life. But I've had some failures. We've all faced difficult times. And I was note,

Rick Tarrant: 26:24

I've heard it said, the highlight reels, don't tell the whole story. Know, that you can actually learn can be mentored, actually, to Hey, learn, learn from what I don't want you to do.

Unknown: 26:34

Yeah, I was just successful 51% of the time. So the other 40% didn't go to good.

Rick Tarrant: 26:42

So big. Well, here, I would ask you this then for? I know you have an opportunity, and you have had opportunity to mentor a lot of younger artists along the way. How do you advise them, especially well, of those of faith, to keep keep their faith intact as they navigate? What can be a pretty dicey business, even on the, on the faith, faith side of things, and to still step out, stay strong in faith? Do you? Do you ever have opportunities to talk about this?

Ed DeGarmo: 27:13

Well, I mean, the first thing that I say to aspiring artist is, you know, Jesus is not going to ask for your autograph when you meeting. So, you know, you need to have a better approach and a deeper, deeper understanding of what you're about. And I've had some artists say to me, Well, I'm really not in the ministry, I just play guitar, you know? And like, well, if you know the Lord, you are in the ministry, whether you are in it full time working for a church, or you're in it, you know, part time as a youth director, or you're in it, as a heat Nair guy, or an accountant working in an office, you are in the ministry. I mean, that is not optional. When we know Jesus,

Rick Tarrant: 27:58

I think Paul said, We're ambassadors of Christ. And we've all been giving the ministry of reconciliation.

Ed DeGarmo: 28:04

Yeah. And so it's just how has God placed you in life? To, to use your surroundings to build His kingdom? I mean, that's really the the question and the answer. And so when I work with young artists, and have many times, obviously, through the years, just to encourage him to stay grounded in the Word, and encourage them to stay grounded in a church, I think being around a body of believers is essentially important. You know, there's fat as a wrong word. But there's, there's a movement now, with some believers called deconstruction. deconstruction, you heard of it? That's where that

Rick Tarrant: 28:48

is that mean? They're walking away from the faith, right? Or no,

Ed DeGarmo: 28:51

basically, you know, and, I mean, John describes that First John, chapter one. I think it's 12 describes that where it says, Well, we thought they were from us, but they really weren't of us, because they went out away from us. So they were never of us in the beginning. Wow. And that's unfortunately the way that that I definitely see that's the way the Scripture talks about that. Because Jesus says, I'll never leave you or forsake you. And he also told in John, that nobody will pluck those out of my hand. Nobody, not even yourself. Yeah. So

Rick Tarrant: 29:28

if I understand it, is it more like, Well, I'm gonna pick and choose which parts of the faith I like and keep those and put out the rest of

Ed DeGarmo: 29:35

your head. So it's a little bit of that too. I mean, that's the Thomas Jefferson look at it'd be viewed

Rick Tarrant: 29:41

through. He made his own Bible clipped all the miracles out. This is not

Ed DeGarmo: 29:45

new. None of this is new. You just pick and choose the parts you like, you know, and then rip out the rest. We've all been tempted to do that. And you know, there's there's some that's definitely difficult lifeline. Since in the Scripture, you know, Jesus talks about the least of these will be in the ones that are first in the kingdom of God in the servants, you know,

Rick Tarrant: 30:12

he said, Hey, who wants to be great among you be be a servant, be a slave observe. So has that been part of the key to your success and wisdom in serving? Did you have an?

Unknown: 30:23

Oh I don't do that. I don't know that I can say I'm proud to be a servant, Ted said interesting twist of the phrase.

Rick Tarrant: 30:33

Well, I guess I mean, you know, by in your position to be able to look and say, Well, how can I serve this person? How can I help this person? How, whether it's the songs that go out to the end user, or the artist whose career you're well, helping develop? It seems like you're in a serving situation here? Well,

Ed DeGarmo: 30:49

I mean, I, I guess that's somewhat true, you know, to be in a leadership role, you're best when you can serve at the same time. I mean, leaders, leaders have to do a few things to be leaders, you know, they have to provide a vision. Where are we going, they have to provide, you know, if it's across the ocean, they got to provide a resource called a boat to get over there, you know, and then they need to provide resources to help us get there. That's what leaders do. And there's a lot of servant attitude that are involved in all three of those

Rick Tarrant: 31:24

reminds me of it can be a cliche, but a phrase that I've been introduced in the last year was where God gives the vision, he will give the provision. And that in that, I guess, and God is the ultimate leader, right? So that if he puts in your heart to go do something, or start something, that the provision will be found along the way. And it's guys like you that generally help us find it, where God God's God provides me yeah, that that kind of that kind of thing. That's just the way that that works, you know, and sometimes you don't get to see the finished product, somebody else gets to, but you were part of starting it. So, you know, took, I think, 700 years to build Notre Dame Cathedral, think of that one, crazy 700 years. So how does it feel? I want us to call you an elder statesman of the contemporary Christian music industry. And you know, I don't know about you, I mean, I don't I still feel like I'm 21 Honestly, in my brain, I was still 21. And then I walked by the American Whoa, okay. So I guess I have been on this journey for a while, you know, but as you from this point in 2022, looking back to 1973, if is there a perspective that you have that you can bring to this and see the fruit of your labor, if you will? Does that make you

Ed DeGarmo: 32:50

want I mean, I'm grateful to be involved in so many wonderful parts of just honored to build the kingdom of God. I mean, DNK, we saw 10s of 1000s, if not hundreds of 1000s people's lives change. And I still get all kinds of courses to turn into electronic mail these days, but you know, Facebook and Twitter and all sorts of things about people's interaction with our music and how it bless them. And that's very meaningful. I had more success from a worldly point of view as a record exec than I did as an artist, with groups like audio drilling in DC talk, of course, and skillet and Rebecca, St. James, and Chris Tomlin and Toby Mac and Matt Redmond, and he'll song I had more success there and reached a broader group of people. But yeah, I've been honored along the way. And as I look back and see the kinds of things that God has allowed me because I think that's an important phrase, God allowed me to be part of those things. I don't take it lightly.

Rick Tarrant: 34:02

If I had to ask you for words of wisdom that you've lived out from the word and how the word has guided you each day, is there? Well, I'll put it in context. Years ago, I asked Bill Gaither about walking in God's will. And he basically told me, he said, Well, Rick, I wake up every day and, and I pray and I asked the Lord, give me this day walking in God's will. And he said, you know, you do do that seven days in a row, and you've got a week of walking in God's will. And do that for 30. You've got a month in God's will. And then it's a year and he said, Man, before you know it, you've lived a lifetime in God's will. And I was just wondering, is it been kind of that scene for you?

Ed DeGarmo: 34:44

It has been much in the same I mean, my walk with the Lord is no different than anybody else's in that. I tried to be faithful in the small things. And if you're faithful in the small things, God will allow you to be faithful in the greater things. And the small things are, are loving each other and loving your family and, and being a good father and being a good husband and being a good grandfather these days, those kinds of things. As I mentioned earlier, it's important for us as believers to be in the word because I think the word is our guidebook to life. And it's important for us to pray, and to understand what prayer is, you know, prayer is not praying for a nuclear submarine, because you may never get one. But you know, then again, you might, I'm not saying the point is, we pray that we can become more like Christ is what we pray. Yes. When we become more like Christ, we are servants. And we longed to serve others rather than just serve ourselves. And that's an important lesson. And I think Bill was on it, Bill Gaither, when he said, I get up in the morning and say, Lord, I want your will today. Not my will. And that's hard. That's a hard lesson for all of us, especially those that God is allowed to lead. It's it's a hard lesson. Because you want to submit yourself to a higher authority in yourself. But that's an important lesson.

Rick Tarrant: 36:16

Yeah, I wished I'd learned that as a younger man, because I was pretty headstrong, and, you know, like, the Lord blessed me is like, Okay, Lord, I'll let you know if any jiggin and just kind of run head on down the highway, right? But it's it now my attitude is more like when I first wake up, it's like, Okay, Lord, it's no longer i that live, but Christ in me, I know, I'm predestined to be made into the image of Christ. So I surrender yet again. And sometimes throughout the day, I forget that I surrendered and, and the old man tries to come back. But it's like, I think things might have gone much better if I had adopted that attitude at a younger age. And I don't say that with with regret. But it's just I'm so grateful to still be on the path and still growing and still learning. And it thrills me to be on this zoom call with you today. And just to kind of reconnect, and because we haven't,

Ed DeGarmo: 37:07

we're looking at these proverbs that we read, it says, in their Khartoum and plans in their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. So even though that we plan our course that we know Christ, He establishes our steps. So I think that that's also a place of security for believers knowing that, you know, are even the hairs of our head are numbered. My numbers a little less than it used to be these days. But you know, I used to have a lot of hair, Rick got to admit

Rick Tarrant: 37:46

me to brother. I was talking to a friend yesterday, the director of Joel Olsteen radio, and I said, Can I just say I covet your boss's hair? He just has a good head of hair? He does, he does? Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and just ask if anyone in the Zoom Room has a question for my friend, Ed DeGarmo. If you raise your electronic hand and let me know one of the people that I sometimes call on, just to put them on the spot, is my friend Danny Cosby. Now I do this to Danny, because he also is in the Christian music realm and a vocalist and leads worship at it. Hope Presbyterian, Danny Cosby, this is a DeGarmo DeGarmo This is Danny.

Danny Cosby: 38:33

Hey, Danny. Hey, man, I'm just soaking all this. So grateful for you being so transparent about an industry that a lot of us are thinking we want to break into. I've been doing this my whole life. And I just saw all the bands. I remember seeing all the bands you're talking about skillet, I remember down on Highland and summer, I'd go in the basement and listen to those guys. It was probably 40 of us before they started selling out stadiums and getting in the mosh pit and going home with the bloody shirt after a Christian show. I mean, how does that happen? Right, but having a had just having a good time. And, and I just appreciate I just wanted to say, I guess I wanted to ask your advice for something but also wanted to say I really appreciate something you said earlier, really hit me like a ton of bricks when I started writing songs again, I was, of course, I'd gotten on heroin and crystal meth and that just killed my desire for music anymore. And then a little too late to turn it around. I was in prison. And that's when God said alright, I want you to start writing songs about our relationship and that from that point on till now, it's just been this really awesome experience with Jesus and the music. He's he's put in my heart. And I was thinking about artists studios and all that my little brother he recorded there he was in a band called Star in my seat And they recorded there. And I remember all those guys that just what was going on there. But you said something that say this, and I'll shut up. And you said, it's not about what you're doing. But it's about who you're going to be. I think it was something like that. And that, that right there dramatically changed my life in 2007. Thinking about that truth. It's not about what I do, and how well I do it, but it's about who I am in Christ. So you know, Ricky said, I'm crucified with Christ. Nevertheless, I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me. And just getting out of the way, in letting Jesus take the wheel in songwriting, and being a husband and all the other stuff. But anyway, I guess what I'm saying is being somebody that thinks that's the industry I really want to go into, because I love music, I love writing music, got and trying to get our albums out there and stuff. But with it being an industry that can pull you in the area of pride and arrogance, and what how many albums in my cell? And hey, how popular are we? What kind of advice would you give someone that's saying, I want to just tell people about Jesus, and I want to use music to do it. With that industry and all of the the potholes that are along the way, I don't know if that makes sense. But I love you, thank you in advance.

Ed DeGarmo: 41:22

And I mean, the wonderful thing about the music industry today versus when I started 40 years ago, 50 years ago, is there's a lot of tools at your disposal, where you can do a lot of this stuff without a big team of people necessarily around you, you know, you can record your music yourself. I mean, you can make it sound pretty good yourself and home studios these days, you can, you know, make it available through, you know, different distribution platforms. I mean, I think it's somewhere in the mid 90s 95% of all music in North America is sold through four destinations Today, Apple Music, Spotify, Amazon, and YouTube. And there's, you know, different distribution companies that will allow your music to get up there. I mean, the harder part is, you know, you have to let people know that you exist. And you know, that, that turns into a kind of, I raised my hand above the other 50 million people that have put out music. And so you got to work at that, but I just encourage you to be faithful in the small things, you know, be faithful artists would come to me, Danny, and they would say, bro, they said, you know, man, I can't wait to record an album, you know, we've got 10 or 12 songs that 15 songs that we wouldn't make an album, you know, and I said, Well, you know, you only need one, really, in the beginning. And in fact, I mean, you can even take it down from there, you really only need about 45 seconds of undeniable, great music. That's about all you really need. That's, that's sounds like it's a small thing to come up with. It's not it's a hard thing. So but you know, write your music, one song at a time, make sure that song is great before you move on to the next one, you know, record your music, one song at a time, don't record it, thinking about full albums. When you're offered the opportunity to play in front of an audience, try to reach that one person and rather than 1000. It's all about the small things. And those of us that are faithful in the small things will be given more to do Danny, that's the probably the best counsel that I can give you.

Rick Tarrant: 43:54

Yeah, that's like the parable of the talents. And he won one hid that talent in the ground and other the others went off and invested and doubled their their lords, you know, investment. And I'd say it's the same way with I think you were very faithful and using your talents, both on the musical side, and then also on the on the business side.

Ed DeGarmo: 44:11

And you know, Danny, that God allowed you to go through some very difficult times to give you a wealth of knowledge to how to address those kinds of things with other people that are going through similar situations. And so, you know, I'm grateful to have you in the kingdom and know that you've got a life experiences that can help folks get through that stuff.

Danny Cosby: 44:34

Thank you so much in

Rick Tarrant: 44:36

that you can address things in people's lives that you know, ed or I might not know anything about. Yeah, I can tell you how to get thrown out of the church.

Danny Cosby: 44:48

And say I've been a couple of times.

Rick Tarrant: 44:51

Ed, you mentioned grandkids a minute ago and I think if you often hear as I'm traveling through Memphis, especially I'm heading down in a poplar pike and I go pass a street called Sunset, as I recall. And I believe that I did an interview with you once at your home over on onset on Sunset, you and Susan, as I recall, but I don't believe there were children back then in the early to mid 70s. So I'm just curious about your grandchildren. How do you mentor them?

Ed DeGarmo: 45:23

Well, Susan, I've been married about nine months and 15 minutes when we had our first baby

Rick Tarrant: 45:34

so that there were children, I just wasn't, oh, they were quiet. So the idea of passing this wisdom along to, to your your grandchildren, I'm just curious how you how how that factors in?

Ed DeGarmo: 45:49

Well, we have a close family, God has blessed us that way. And we have five grandchildren, Susan, I have two daughters, two great sounding models and five grandchildren. And our grandchildren are, you know, we have four that are either in college or got out of college. And we have one this 12 He's kind of the exclamation point at the end of our family sentence. But you know, it's been awesome to see our grandkids they've all gone in different directions. The oldest granddaughter is married, she's a paramedic, and she wants to be in the medical field. We have a grandson that does want to be in music. And he's, you know, one of these guys that can play a half a dozen different instruments and knows how to record them all and write songs and that sort of thing. So it'd be fun to watch his his steps and how that works out for him. And then we have a grandson that studies particle physics of all things. He's He's like her. He's like our family brain trust. Wow, particle physics, okay, oh, he's all up in that sort of thing. You know, does calculus at a level he can't even comprehend, I can't even do arithmetic. So, you know, and then we have a granddaughter, that's a fabric engineer, which is different than a designer. You know, she figures out how to make it. You know that it passes liquids one direction, or both directions and all that sort of thing. So it's fun to watch your grandkids and watch them grow.

Rick Tarrant: 47:25

Wow, fascinating. So, as I look at mine, I think, you know, I wonder what their purpose is. I wonder what he's going to be and be not do. I wonder who's he's going to become and it's interesting to see all these different personalities and characteristics.

Ed DeGarmo: 47:40

So we, you know, our family is, we're gonna all get together tonight. Susan's my lovely bride is having a birthday tonight. And we're going to have a dinner together. And so it was good to see everybody and catch up. So we look forward to that.

Rick Tarrant: 47:55

What would you send my happy birthday greetings to Susan is I don't know that I have spoken to her since maybe 1979. When someone gave me her number, and I rang her up, and I said, Hi, my name is Rick. I'm getting ready to interview and Dana, and I need I need some background. And she said, Well, ask them about the time they kissed in the first grade. And I asked you this question that Arden I remember you looking at Dana and Dana looking at your new ID. Who is he been talking to? Well, it was Susan's

Unknown: 48:32

adult. I mean, kiss as a matter of speaking, I don't think it's exactly what the way you're portraying.

Rick Tarrant: 48:37

They're not portraying that's what she said. Anyway, first grade story, maybe a peck on the cheek? I'm not sure. Yeah, Young. Y'all had been friends for a long, long time.

Ed DeGarmo: 48:51

In first grade. I actually heard this week kind of a sad story that tore down the elementary school. We went to graves Road Elementary.

Rick Tarrant: 49:02

I was I remember, I was out in California when I got the news that he was gone. And I was just so shocked. Because you know, Dana and I used to do a radio show together at my studio in Arlington. And, and I wasn't here, I wasn't here when? For the funeral. And I've always kind of been sad about that. But I I counted him a friend and yeah, I know you do. Would you pray us out and impart a blessing to those of us in the affirming words of abundance community both in the podcast in the Zoom Room, in the in the live stream? And I just want to thank you again for coming on and doing this spending an hour with me. That's no small thing. I'm very, very grateful.

Ed DeGarmo: 49:47

Oh, Lord, I thank you for friends and I thank you for my relationship with Rick these last 50 years. It's hard to say that 50 years, what a lifetime. And Lord I thank you that we could have this discussion centered around your word and Proverbs, we could talk about small steps and now that you ask us to be faithful in the small things, long before you ask us to be faithful in the big things. And Lord, we thank you for that you direct our paths. Because if I had to direct it myself, what trouble would I be in? Thank you for that. Bless all these folks that were part of this. We appreciate you, Jesus name,

Rick Tarrant: 50:30

amen. And Lord, I'd like to pray a blessing on in his family, especially as they gather tonight. And Susan's Happy birthday. Thank you, Lord for giving her another circle around the sun. And I just asked that your favor your wisdom, that that would continue upon his kids, his grandkids that the doors would open that know that God would open doors that no man can shut as, as they say, and that that favor would continue from generation to generation in the DeGarmo family. And I ask it in Jesus name. Amen. Brother, I look forward to sitting down and having a meal with you. And now that we've done this all the next time I come to Nashville, I'll send you an email and see if it works out. So alright, good to see you guys. I'll leave you all with this. Speak the word renew your mind transform your life.