Proverbs 23 - Paul Renfroe

Show intro: 0:03

Welcome to the affirming words podcast, where you're encouraged to speak the word renew your mind and transform your life. Here's your host, Rick Tarrant.

Rick Tarrant: 0:14

Well, hey there hi there. Whoa, there? Yes, it is. It's why in Memphis, Tennessee, I hope you're doing well. Today we're coming to you live and direct from the affirming words of abundance studio with our lovely microphone. And we have a special guest with us today. But before we go down that path, I think I will pray ever so briefly, Father, we just commit this time to you and just ask God that you would be the continue to be the light into our feet, your word is just that. And as you would help us as we go through this, speaking the word out and renewing our mind so that we can be more like you and less like the old man, and that we can expand your kingdom in our generation. That's our prayer. And we ask it in Jesus name. Amen. And amen. Well, I would like to welcome you first of all, to affirming words of abundance, Mr. Paul Renfroe. He is I know he's I don't have a prepared biography for you, Paul. But I know you are an author. I know that because I just read one of your audio books. Also know that you are a financial advisor. I know that because I used to help you produce a radio show, as I recall, but that was so long ago, I might even have that wrong. And then let's see what else I Well, you're a preacher, I know that because you've been you've spent many hours in the pulpit. So fill us in, give us just a little, you know, give us the short version before we jump into proverbs 23. And then we'll have more discussion after that. So a little bit,

Paul Renfroe: 1:44

thank you. The short version, you pretty much covered it. I was a religion major, with very hostile religion professors in college during the seventies. And they had the effect of convincing me that Jesus Christ could be fully trusted. And the scripture was totally trustworthy. And despite all their efforts, I and my friends who were involved in our Bible studies discovered that God was a lot more trustworthy than professors and had better character as well. So, we, we always noticed to professors, never were very good at answering prayer. But so after that, I served with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship for 12 years. And my wife and I, in that period, trained college students to study the Scripture, to evangelize to disciple others to lead small group Bible studies, and manifest excellence of Christian character. And then, since that period, I've been in the financial business helping people preserve their wealth that God has given given them, as well as grow it. And so meanwhile, along the way, my wife and I have become Metho Bab Tierra Kalia Casals.

Rick Tarrant: 3:10

No, say that more slowly.

Paul Renfroe: 3:12

Okay. Yeah, I'll give you the right pronunciation there. Metho, bad Tierra. Kalia Casals. I can't say it slowly. Because we Yeah,

Rick Tarrant: 3:24

Methodist and Baptist and Pentecostal in there, somewhere, Presbyterian,

Paul Renfroe: 3:28

Episcopalian Catholic. Wherever people were loving the Lord in all our travels. That's who we wanted to be with. And it didn't always coincide with our denominational background. So we both became Christians, my wife and I, when we were around 20. And so as a result of these travels, I have had my wife and I've had a very broad exposure to the body of Christ, we've served a leader and all those stops. And that's the reason for my writing. This is my fourth book here. It's entitled nobody sees this you how to live as a spirit in the unseen realm. Now, you can see it on Amazon, you can search my name on Amazon as well. And the price the ebook at 99 cents because I want to get the word out what yeah, 99 cent ebook. And the audio books gonna be a million dollars. Right, right. Because Rick did the audio book and excellent job,

Rick Tarrant: 4:38

no hope it's worth a million actually. It's it's priceless. There was

Paul Renfroe: 4:42

priceless Yeah, with the MasterCard commercials. And then everybody that gets one of my books gets one of these posters, which is available, just freestanding $5 On our website, and I'll tell you that in a minute. But this is I am a spirit in Christ and quote Jesus when he was speaking to Nicodemus, so it is with everyone born of the Spirit. We're like the when we're unaccountable, and we are undefinable uncontrollable, and very irritating to people that aren't saved.

Rick Tarrant: 5:16

You know, I think that's a real good. That was the probably the best description of Paul Reiko right there. Okay, I'm gonna get to it. I know you will. And see, I do know, Paul. So if I seem a little weekend banter, yes, we can banter and you can take it as well, again it? Well, that remains to be seen.

Paul Renfroe: 5:35

Oh, yeah, you take it quite well.

Rick Tarrant: 5:39

We shall see. So before we I, there are some questions I want to ask you. But before we do that, shall we? Shall we read through proverbs 23. Since today is the as we record this, it's the 23rd of February 2022. Yeah. And you were I think you said you like to read from the the New King James Version, right? So it's not to confuse I'll just stay with the same version. How about if you do three verses? I'll do three and we'll just kind of back back and forth like that and see what jumps off the page at us.

Paul Renfroe: 6:11

All right. Well, I gotta warn you. The version I'm using has no versus Well, so what I'll do is I'll

Rick Tarrant: 6:18

sleep stop boundaries bot and yeah, I'll just pick over and Okay.

Paul Renfroe: 6:23

I'll read three thoughts. So proverbs 23. When you sit down to eat with a ruler, consider carefully what is before you. And put a knife to your throat. Yeah, you are a man given to appetite. Do not desire his delicacies for they are deceptive. Do not overwork to be rich, because of your own understanding cease. When well, you set your eyes on that which is not, for riches certainly make themselves wings. They fly away like an eagle toward heaven. Do not eat the bread of a miser, nor desire his delicacies. For as he thinks in his heart, so is he eat and drink he says to you, but his heart is not with you. The morsel you have eaten, you will vomit up and waste your pleasant words.

Rick Tarrant: 7:20

Do not speak in the hearing of a fool for he will despise the wisdom of your words. Do not remove the ancient landmarks nor enter the fields of the fatherless or their redeemer is mighty he will plead their cause against you. Apply your heart to instruction and your ears to words of knowledge. Do not withhold correction from a child. For if you beat him with a rod he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod and deliver his soul from hell. I don't want to stop on that one. My son if your heart is wise, my heart will rejoice indeed I myself. Yes, my inmost being will rejoice when your lips speak right things. That's my verse three.

Paul Renfroe: 8:06

Do not let your heart and be centers but be zealous for the fear of the Lord all the day. For surely there is a hereafter and your hope will not be cut off here my son and be wise and guide your heart in the way do not mix with one bevers or with gluttony there's gluttonous eaters of meat for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty and drowsiness will close close a man with rags. Listen to your father who begat you, and do not despise your mother when she has old by the truth and do not sell it. Also wisdom and instruction and understanding. The father of the righteous will greatly rejoice and he who begets a wise child will delight in him. Let your mother and your father be glad. And let her who bore you rejoice.

Rick Tarrant: 9:01

My son, give me your heart and let your eyes observe my ways. For a harlot is a deep pit and a seductress is a narrow well. She also lies in weight as for a victim and increases the unfaithful among men. Who has whoa who has sorrow, who has contentions, who has complaints, who has wounds without cause, who has redness have eyes. Those who linger long at the wine those who go in search of mixed wine, do not look on the wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it swirls around smoothly. At the last it bites like a serpent and stings like a viper. Your eyes will see strange things and your heart will utter perverse things. Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea or like one who lies on the top of the mass saying they have struck me but I was not hurt. They have beaten me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink? This is the word of the Lord. Thanks be to God. Proverbs, it's a little intense some days,

Paul Renfroe: 10:16

I'll say. A lot that thought there was a clear theme as I was reading this. And that is about warnings against addiction, and the behaviors that sprang from addiction. The first segment eating with a ruler, addiction to appetite cup blends you to the propriety of your situation and, and the tentative nature of the approval. And these days, of course, a ruler could chop off your head, it's not quite the same today. And riches also are not a satisfying target for appetite and addiction. Eating and drinking from a miser property theft, the moving the landmark, depriving the fatherless all these things, there's only one addiction that pays off. Apply your heart to us instruction and your ears to words of knowledge.

Rick Tarrant: 11:27

Yes, and like 16 Word says and let your lips speak it, you know, speak

Paul Renfroe: 11:33

Yes. Yeah. So that's kind of that was for an overview to make sense of the pieces. That was the overview that made sense to me. What do you think? Right?

Rick Tarrant: 11:44

Well, I think it's interesting that you brought that up, because as I was reading this morning, and I've never really been a part of a church that had more traditional church that that that celebrated the Lenting season, I've only in recent years began attending churches that are being to, you know, denote Ash Wednesday and things like that. But just as I was pondering the season leading up to Easter, I was just thinking about, you know, there's some things that I certainly know, my body could stand to detox from, from some things. So I was thinking, you know, just asking the Lord. So can we combine the spiritual and the physical there? Because I mean, everything is I think all things are spiritual, and God made us and God made our bodies. So I was thinking in terms of, you know, but 40 days without, without sugar. No. But yeah, but when I was actually thinking, and what if we did that in community? So I'm just now laying that out there. I'm pondering that this morning, and I called my friend Chris Wark about because he knows a lot about, you know, detox, and I don't know, it's just something swirling around in my mind. So it's interesting that you brought that up up today.

Paul Renfroe: 12:53

Oh, sure. Enough, well, actually, I think it was the Lord that scheduled proverbs 23 for you. But now, it's interesting what you're saying about our body and our spirit. Our pastor in our our bishop, and our movement that we're part of Christian International, says that when he was younger, he began a 40 day fast every month.

Rick Tarrant: 13:23

I've been on that one. It's like when I used to smoke cigarettes is like, Ah, I can I can quit these things easy. I've already quit 100 times, you know. So speaking of the body in the spirit, though, I do have to ask you this question. And that is, and I was with our friend, Brian, last night. Yeah, I got a question for Paul. In fact, I don't know why he's not on the Zoom. I guess maybe I didn't send him a link. But he said, ask Paul. Why he's still drawing breath. Actually. He said he really shouldn't have been here multiple times. And yeah, I know you. I know you have a story there. And I don't know if that's something you wanted to talk about. But

Paul Renfroe: 14:06

I'm happy to. So seven times in my life, doctors have made a fatal diagnosis of Paul Renfroe seven without even looking at my face. And so I was born with a heart defect in 1956, before the invention of the heart lung machine, and they told my parents I would not live very long. By the time I was 16, my heart was nearly twice the size it should be because if you're medical, you may know the phrase aortic stenosis, and so had a valve on the plasti when I was 16. And the leap of health that I experienced, was absolutely phenomenal, along about 18 years later, began to really get really saggy and draggy And my doctor said, Well, your, your valve with the scar tissue is calcifying and not permitting proper blood movement. And let me tell you what there is no tired like heart tired. So 20 years after that first surgery, I had my first artificial valve and planted, and that recuperation was extremely difficult. It took almost a year to recover from that. That was 1993. And, you know, my first encounter with the Lord personally, I should read backtrack was when after I was 16, that's valuable blasty I had when I was 16, where they saw open heart surgery, but they just cut and paste. And so do you know, I woke up an oxygen tent, which they don't use anymore. And I woke up an oxygen tent, and I couldn't breathe because of the various medical apparatus. And you know, the Lord was right there with me. I thought, well, I guess I'm dying. I had just put my faith in the Lord about a month before that surgery. And the Lord was with me. And if you've, you all know, the Lord was just with me. It was really beautiful. So then I fast forward 20 years later had the first artificial bow Fast forward again. And I'm snow ski and in the Colorado mountains, and I hurt my knee a little bit. By the time I got back to Memphis, where I lived, where Rick is my name and I was in great pain from the swelling. And the doctor at the mercy room happened to be a client of mine and a Christian brother. He said, You know what, Paul, I'm going to check you for pulmonary embolisms. I said, Okay, great, whatever the hell was out of it. And do you know, it can't Maxwell got good news or bad news is what is it? He said, You don't have any pulmonary embolisms? I said, Well, what's the bad news? He said, you've got an aortic aneurysm. That's a third of your chest cavity. And I had just been snow scan. And I mean, it was just amazing. If this was the the CAT scan, the aneurism was about that size. Yeah, I mean, it was absolutely

Rick Tarrant: 17:19

nice skin. Yeah, I would not, you would not be here today.

Paul Renfroe: 17:23

No, no. Cuz aneurism, you know, you had no symptoms. So anyway, so I got an artificial aorta now. And another artificial valve. So that got me up to three. And then I was diagnosed with hepatitis C, and my liver was going down. And Dr. So Willis fatal, but there's an experimental treatment, I did that and put me under putting me under water basically, for two years, but it worked. So that's all gone. That was number four. And then in 2018, I started to become very weak and develop a film. And then Doctor says, Well, you've got congestive heart failure, we need to do something, because you got about a month ago. And I mean, it was intense during that period. Now, this is amazing. That diagnosis was in the fall of 2018. In December of 2017, I had begun to write a this book right here. I have a gun to write this book right here. The Rise and Fall of the kingdom of darkness. And all this health events in 2018 were no question a consequence of because you were talking about the connection of our spirit and our body. Yeah. And the enemies that do not want to be exposed, attacked me very severely. Had rhabdomyolysis twice during that period. And then I had a severe mitral valve problem. So I got another artificial implant. And do you know what I mean? Look at me, I'm alive. Like Brian said, Yeah, it's pretty good. In fact, we go backpacking together.

Rick Tarrant: 19:19

I know, I know. He's like, he goes through all this and then like, you know, 678 weeks later, we're backpacking, the you know, in the Smoky Mountains and Vega here there and Yan and you know, surviving thunderstorms on top of a mountain top in the middle of the night.

Paul Renfroe: 19:32

Oh, yeah. You've heard some of those. So this is one of the most amazing things that occurred in oh six when I got the artificial aorta in my second artificial valve and woke up DNA know if you've had surgery and they put you in anesthesia. As you're coming out of anesthesia, there comes a point where you are aware But you're not aware of what you're aware of. And it was in that fog. I mean, you don't even know you're a person you just aware. And in that moment, the Holy Spirit spoke to me it's 2006 in intensive care. My wife is sitting by me hold my hand waiting for some sign of life. And the Holy Spirit speaks to me while I'm coming in that fog, I don't even know exists. He says, this is going to drumroll, please. It's very dramatic. I'm going to underwhelm you after that leader. Okay. Thank you. He said, Romans 811. That's all I said. So my wife sent her home my hands and I begin to stir and she says, how are you? How are you? And I said, Great. You know, and you're in a really room and did Olivia. Anyway, the nurse who was there said, I think he wants you to read him. A Bible verse is Romans 811. Here's what it says, of course, I haven't memorize. If the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you, then He who raised Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal body also through the same spirit.

Rick Tarrant: 21:21

Wow, that's beautiful.

Paul Renfroe: 21:23

And I want you to know that Brian and I went backpacking, seven weeks later, after I got a artificial valve, and artificial heart, I mean, aorta, and we went backpacking and savage call, we had a 2000 foot elevation change and with 22 miles with a 20 pound pack. Brian, a very temperate, Brian, our mutual friend. He said that now Paul, he said, I'm glad you're feeling good as Dr. Centers okay, I said his back, the doctor said it was no reason I couldn't go. He said he never seen anything like it. This is the seven weeks after Romans 811 in that waking up. And Brad said, Well, Paul, if you collapse, I don't think I can carry. I'm gonna have to go for help. I said, Okay, no problem. I'm not very happy. But that's okay. Anyway. Sweetheart,

Rick Tarrant: 22:16

but in the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead, will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Well,

Paul Renfroe: 22:31

you couldn't be any player. There couldn't

Rick Tarrant: 22:33

be any plainer. Any cleaner.

Paul Renfroe: 22:35

Now we all expect to die. Expect to die. You know, they all have an expiration date. Well, right. And Lazarus died again. Right? I mean, all those people Jesus raised where are they the back of the dead. But so anyway, I'm not uptight about that. But I have a lord. Only he gets to say when I die, and no addictive behaviors, like proverbs 23 are going to accelerate the process. Although I did have a milkshake yesterday from Whataburger, but that's not an addictive was comfort.

Rick Tarrant: 23:12

Fast. It's just fascinating. So seven, seven times you've been declared? Yeah. Get your repairs and odors.

Paul Renfroe: 23:20

So it builds your face. See? Because guess what? In 2008 Yeah. 2008 some dear friends of ours, a son, who was about 22 and fair, very addicted to heroin. And he had had three overdoses. And they were out traveling, or they were about three hours away in Middle Tennessee in their car over in Perry County, Utah. And I got a call. Yeah, Joe. Do you know chip? Just

Rick Tarrant: 24:01

yeah. Went to church with them for seven years Where? Where? Christ city? Oh, god. Yeah.

Paul Renfroe: 24:07

So this was that after a while he was in a wheelchair. Okay, so So here's the backstory that you may not know. So Bill and Barbara called me and they said Paul, can you get over mercy Ray methods mergency Germantown chips had another overdose and they say he's brain dead and we need an empty and he was as cold as ice and totally blew. Blew dead blue. And the emergency room. Joyce Hallward. Now we're in there. And all his friends came in all isn't Draghi France. Oh, and, you know all that little fakie sympathy. And I'm not I don't want to be too harsh, but it was kind of like a fairweather friend. So anyway, I said Joyce, I just don't think that this is chips time. I think the Lord wants us to have faith. She said, I'm thinking the same exact thing. So we began to pray faith in the room. And the emergency room doctor came in said, What are you doing? He's dead. He's brain dead. As soon as parents get here, we're gonna turn them off and mean, and turn off life support. And so then Bill and Barbara finally get there. After about three hours. Joyce and I are in their prayers. And Bill and Barbara rushing in, and we can hear this big commotion up the hall. You know, Bill and Barbara. Oh, yeah. And, and we hear this big commotion out in the hall and Berceuse we're not, we're not saying that she comes in and she comes into the little, you know, Kirtland area where Sonny has cold and blue. She's cooked spirit of death. Get out of this room I rebuke you get out of this room spirit of death, you have no place here. And her faith was at a fever pitch and ours was and and you know, Chip sense. And now they live here. As matter of fact, we see them down here is perfect.

Rick Tarrant: 25:58

Is that right? Yeah, about that hotel down here is Bill Bill. And Barbara said hello. That's. So anyway, the sake of our zoom audience, and for anyone listening to the podcast, or watching the stream, I was attending this church called Christ city after my church of 32 years, shut down. I say they, they were closed due to lack of interest. But that's another story. So we're and this is where I started being exposed a little more Reformed theology and calendar and liturgy and things like that. But I saw this gentleman in a wheelchair and I just made a leap that he was a victim of born that way with cerebral palsy. So then, when I hear Barbin bill, tell the story of I don't know how much of that story you want to tell. But I remember thinking, Yeah, I know, Paul. And Dang, that's weird. But yeah, all we do, yeah. And chips here and chips alive. I mean, he's in a wheelchair, and he's got his, he's got his struggles, but he is definitely here. And he's good. I'll say that,

Paul Renfroe: 27:01

that tells you about me laying out on his body three times.

Rick Tarrant: 27:05

Elijah, if you want to lay that out here, go ahead. Well,

Paul Renfroe: 27:07

so I just went over there one day, he was has recovery fro of his motor functions has been slow. And at the very first it was very challenging. I mean, he was alive, but not a lot of life. And, and so I said, You know what, the Lord's just convicted me. Listen, folks. We don't we're not accountable. Let me I don't put that on Judgment Day, you're not gonna judge me. Jesus told the apostles to preach that he was the judge. That's an X 10. And, and the, he is the judge, he we all will stand before Him. Our books will be open. And everything we've ever done and said and thought even will be in there. I'm trying not to advance anymore embarrassment, aren't you, Rick? Yes, but it probably will happen. But anyway. But having said that, so obeying the Lord, when he gives you leadership obey Him, I believe that he can talk to you and he's not going to push you out on a limb and let saw it off. So I went over there and I said, you know, I think the Lord is telling me to demonstrate faith and let faith minister to cheer up and I'm gonna lie out on him if that's okay with you. And he, of course, we all had a great laugh, and, and I would lay it out on m&ms Send out chip, I'm just not gonna put my lips on yours. Okay.

Rick Tarrant: 28:45

So he was conscious. Okay. I didn't know that part of the story. Yeah. I Yeah. But

Paul Renfroe: 28:53

you know, what I've learned over the years. Obedience is its own reward, you know, job and he obeyed God. And he was very concerned because he wanted to be righteous, and God affirmed it to the devil. No one like him. And, of course, God brought up job. It wasn't Satan, it brought up job because God wanted to test job, just the same way gave Paul A messenger from Satan, to keep them from being overly exalted. In the same way, God tests us with demonic pushback. And so And so Job had to be healed of IOUs. This is one of the major strategies of the kingdom of darkness is they induce us to a religious behavior where we're making trades with God? Yeah. And it's just a joke capitalism, like Adam Smith said in 1812, when he wrote The Wealth of Nations, the seminal economic textbook of capitalism, and he said, this very simple capitalism is this. You give me that which I want and I will give you that what you want And that's how we barter and trade with God. Well guess what? Ezekiel 28? What do you find out? Trading? was what got Lucifer cast out of heaven.

Rick Tarrant: 30:10

Whoa, so God's not a capitalist. Oh, he's

Paul Renfroe: 30:12

very much a capitalist.

Rick Tarrant: 30:14

Oh, I just made a leap. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Paul Renfroe: 30:17

there's a lot to learn. And that's, that's why you want to that's why you want to get the book 99 Set ebook, okay. This is a shameless plug. Nobody sees this, you how to live as a spirit in the king in the unseen realm.

Rick Tarrant: 30:32

Written by Paul Renfroe, yes. by Rick Tarrant.

Paul Renfroe: 30:36

And narrated by Rick Chang was the audiobook. Lord willing, I'll be uploading the audio book today. And you can hear Rick's lovely voice. In fact, you know what, uh, you know, I've been proven samples Rick and, and one of my beta readers is Baptist preacher from Texas, and he was local here. Then I visited with him. And he says, you're getting the audio book. I said, Yeah. He read the whole book. It was published together with a bunch of other folks. And, and so I said, Yeah, you want to hear some of it. He sat it and turned it on. Okay. Now, Rick, don't get the big head. We're watching you. And I turned it on. Hey, he stepped back about a foot and his eyes got real big. And I said, What? Do you like it? Is it okay. He said, Paul. He said, that is exactly what that book deserves. It is absolutely beautiful. So well, that's a friend of mine.

Rick Tarrant: 31:37

Yeah, will tell him I thank you very much. Oh, yes, Andy. So I owe us and and that's, that's an interesting and I remember that was one of the chapters in the book talking about that. Yeah, cuz I don't I don't remember every word that was in the book. But there was there was like, What 92,000 words or something like that? Long book, y'all. Um, but that whole idea of Lucifer trading, that was a very interesting concept, you come up with some some deep thoughts that never would have crossed my mind. That's

Paul Renfroe: 32:08

well, and that comes back to Proverbs. One a way to be addicted to apply your heart to instruction, and your ears to words of knowledge. And so we all like familiar paths, you know, Brian, and I hiked the Appalachian Trail, which runs from Georgia to Maine, we've just done the section with Tennessee, North Carolina and Virginia meet. And the trail is about a foot deep. And it's about that wide. Why ball cause 1000s of the ball walk in that trail. There's a virtue to that. And there's guidelines on the Appalachian Trail. But when it comes to the Bible, there, we don't forsake tradition. And we don't show disrespect to our elders, our elders who are alive, but also our elders who paved the way we stand on their shoulders. This is very important. And this is what denominations provide to us is that structure and tradition that is very valuable and very important. However, I'm not following my pastor. I'm not following Rick or Paul, I'm following Jesus Christ, His Holy Spirit lives in me. If, at the fullness, the fullness, there's so many scriptures, so many John, you might if you got a pencil, and you want to write them down, just by memory, John 1421 23. Another one is Colossians 217. Another one is Ephesians. to something or other. I'm at the age where I relieve myself of verse memory and chapter memory

Rick Tarrant: 34:07

address is not the most important. All

Paul Renfroe: 34:09

right, just go in there and you'll find it. But anyway. And first, John, the whole letter, of course. But the point is that, you know what? I want to hear him. Psalm 25 says, The Lord shares his secrets with sinners. And, and it's just amazing how he does. And so anyway, that's my little testimony. So anyway, he said that I have uncommon sight for things really, if you listen to the Lord will will. And it's just part of growing, you know, you have to go through some tests and, and those tests change the way you look at things. So we all have different tests, and that's okay.

Rick Tarrant: 34:57

Did you elaborate any more on that IOU idea?

Paul Renfroe: 35:01

Well, let's put it this way.

Rick Tarrant: 35:03

Boy, is there a question in the Zoom Room, I'll leave that I'll raise that possibility as well.

Paul Renfroe: 35:09

So Job, for it past the clearest example, the Job and is three ferenz lfls Build add in Sofer. So Job has this habit of doing a sacrifice every time his children have a party. He said, he thinks maybe my children has sinned in their heart to this very upstanding religious behavior. And God himself said, I have no like no one liking. But in Job's mind, he is obligating God, Oh, good. And this really comes to light. Not after all, his children are killed, not after all his possessions are killed, and his wife turns out to be a sourpuss. But what is yeah, when his body is afflicted, he has these painful boils. So pain was the point where he fell apart. And he said, Look, God, I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a woman, Look God given without withholding to the poor, look, God, look, God, look, God, you owe me and then jumped 325, which you can marry up with Isaiah eight, a eight through 12. And in other verses, he says, What I dreaded has come to pass. So we get to his secret motive for all this good behavior, is to keep his dreads at a distance. And so he's saying, Okay, God, I'll do these things for you. I'll give you that what you want. But you give me that which I will keep my dreads at a distance. Well, God did not

Rick Tarrant: 37:06

Give me a pain free life meal.

Paul Renfroe: 37:09

And it's different for different people, you know, these addictive behaviors that are outlined in Proverbs 23. They people engage in those behaviors, those are the one of the many behaviors that's a menu that we can engage in and select in order to avoid our dreads. Now, the addiction to wine and so forth, to drown our sorrows, like a country song. You know, the harlot the seductress? You know, we think, Oh, my goodness, you know, I've dreaded a boring life with my long term wife. So I'm gonna go for hot babe next door, you know, whatever. Yeah. And, I mean, I wish I don't, but that's how people think and y'all had to do is listen to country music, which is worldwide, of course. And so anyway, and of course, other nations and their music teachers.

Rick Tarrant: 38:05

You know, they say, when you play country music backwards. Now it's your car back, you get your truck back, you get your trailer, but

Paul Renfroe: 38:15

seriously. So anyway, I just, you know, Job's addictive behavior versus religion. And so Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar were no help. And at the end, God said, I am angry with you three, because you have not spoken of me rightly, as my servant Job has. Only and there's a real mystery. How on earth do job speak rightly about God? I know that my Redeemer lives and in the end, I will see him in my flesh with my own eyes. I'm not another. You know, there's so many things where Job evidence is just faith. He just cried like a baby because he's, IOU, you just systems get disrupted? Yeah. So anyway

Rick Tarrant: 39:05

I relate to Job and that scripture always jumps off the page, especially when I go through seasons of self deprecation, or God, why weren't you here? When I went through this trouble or whatever, you know, it's like that you have not spoken rightly of me. And I think that's part of the underlying motivation for me even starting this firming words, which we used to be words of encouragement years ago. But the idea of let's get in the habit of it. If all we can think of is one tiny verse, Let's meditate on that one little verse and get it coming out of our mouths. Yeah, in an affirmative way to get into reprogram if you will, and renew my mind. You know, somebody say, well, that's just brainwashing. Well, you know, I had a pretty dirty brain. And it's a blessing. You didn't need to go through the carwash. And I was just curious, what has Have you had a system? I mean, you've been a believer since you were a kid and it sounds like you've been on this quest. Find the Lord and you know, searching different avenues. But in that process, I guess we all need to have our mind renewed. Have you? Was there a process for you of mind renewal as you've learned things over the decades? Yeah. Do share

Paul Renfroe: 40:19

Oh well. process. In other words, it's fluid, right. But it starts with this presupposition that the Bible is the Word of God. And it is deep, deep, deep. And I can never explore it or plummet. And most importantly, the people that I respect and trust, they can never fully explore it. The same Holy Spirit lives in me as in them, I got to as and I can read, and I can apply myself to understanding and I can call out for wisdom. And I can search for it is for hidden treasure, as proverbs two, because what's the promise, then you will find the knowledge of God and discretion will become pleasant to your soul and understanding will enter your heart. That's proverbs two. And that that's, that's the fundamental underpinning for every Christian. I'm not dependent upon the religious muckety mucks to tell me what it says, I've treasured their input. I depend on it, I will make moves in my life. As Rick knows, I left everything, business, home, family, everything to come where I am now sitting, and then they join me. And so the point I'm saying to you is clamor. I love the Lord. I love his voice, and I want to know God's voice. Show me your glory. Exodus 33. Moses said in, in Psalm 25. He did, the Lord delights. Psalm 101 19 went over, how can a young man guard his way or omen that matter? A store and up the Word in your heart, and His Word in my heart? So this? You know, I'm just, I'm telling you, Rick, and answer to your question is no holds barred. It is no holds barred. You know, Jacob wrestled the Lord, the pre incarnate Lord Jesus, at penile. After he, Jacob had sent his entire family and bundles so that maybe one bundle might live before the wrath he feared from Esau. Well, guess what, here is Jacob, and he is wrestling with the Lord Jesus and appreciate God and body. And he's wrestling and Jacob says, I will not let you go until you bless me. This attitude we have with the scripture, and the book I'm working on now. If I share your screen, it's book two. I can do it here, I think. And the book I'm working on now is to Okay, here we go. Let me get it up on my screen. And so, let's see share screen. Oh, you got to enable me to share my screen. I'm in enabler. Okay. Actually something. Okay.

Rick Tarrant: 43:44

Which for anyone listening to the audio will.

Paul Renfroe: 43:49

So that's the book I'm working on right now. It's book two.

Rick Tarrant: 43:52

Nobody sees this unseen realm how to unlock Bible mysteries.

Paul Renfroe: 43:58

And that is in the hands of beta readers now who are reading it to catch possible misunderstandings and doing a good job. One thing isn't author, you know, I don't want to I'm putting my head on the chopping block. I don't want to end up the pages of some magazine calling me a heretic. This is about Bible study. What could be so hard, but anyway, you know, there's some people who really got a lot of a lot of animus in their Christian life for whatever reason. So, like Job's three friends, they were real finger pointers, you know, Joe's three friends, they were they were ready to bury him and correct him even part his hair differently. Anyway, with that in mind,

Rick Tarrant: 44:41

so that brings up a whole another conversation probably for another call, but how to keep your heart pure. That's one of the areas where I I get some animosity in towards, you know, especially living in a very conservative town and where You know, one Dawn nomination kind of look down on another all these decades. So, but it's been pointed out to me Well, Rick, when you respond in light kind, you're kind of doing the same thing, aren't you? And of course, what is Jesus teach? You know, we should, you know, provide, provide food and drink and respond in love. So yeah, I'm still being discipled in that area.

Paul Renfroe: 45:21

Well, when you're not, well go ahead and have your funeral. Exactly. Okay. I mean, when are we finish? Seriously? When are we finished?

Rick Tarrant: 45:34

When we're in the presence, I suppose. All for all. I know, it continues on there. So

Paul Renfroe: 45:39

hey, we got to eternity. I mean, what's the point of being finished? Right. So I wanted to say something else on proverbs 23, as time permits. And I alluded to this to you yesterday, the very first verse, when you sit down to eat with a Burger King, or a Dairy Queen, consider carefully what is before you, and put a knife to your throat, if your man given to appetite, do not desire their milkshakes for their deceptive food, or their hamburgers, and, you know, there is a real truth. Gluttony is kind of the unspoken sin among Christians of 21st. And oh, and

Rick Tarrant: 46:24

he just said it there you he went there.

Paul Renfroe: 46:29

And so, you know what the Scripture warns us about gluttony, age old Christianity listed as one of the seven cardinal sins, right up there with lust, and Gaza, greed, and all those others. And so, gluttony is a seduction of our world doubt, whatever country you're in one of yours in London, and there's others elsewhere. whatever country you're in, buy fresh food, you know, eat fresh food. I'm not saying there's no room for exceptions. I'm not saying it's a matter for religious stringency. But I am saying you got to mind if you sit down to eat with a ruler, a Burger King or a Dairy Queen, consider carefully what's put in front of you. It was a real setup there,

Rick Tarrant: 47:14

you now, that's very interesting. I was telling I was telling you all Paul gets a different slant on things and you know, when I read the ruler, I never saw Burger King or Dairy Queen. But That'll preach you know, especially with our if our friend Chris work gets in the conversation, who really encourages if you fight disease in your body, have more plant a plant based plant based approach to your eating and I was reading in Genesis where you know, even after Adam and Eve have have, have failed miserably that and the Lord saying well, now you're gonna have to you know, work the sweat of your brow and you know, the ground is cursed and you're gonna get thorns and and fizzles, but he does say, but, you know, eat the plants of the field.

Paul Renfroe: 48:01

That was Yeah, it wasn't till after the flood that we were given fleshy.

Rick Tarrant: 48:05

Interesting. Well, you're the Bible. You're You're more of the Bible scholar. And well, religious put it this way. I've never lost a game of Bible trivia. I'm sorry. It's not a brag. People. I can't get people to play with me. I will not be signing up for that challenge. No.

Paul Renfroe: 48:27

Well, you know when your hunger for the Word ain't no I just had one of those detail months and we will have our guests right I mean, what's the big deal? So it's really great to contribute to each other that way. When time when the lab the waiting question was named the father of Noah dot min Sol Slawek. And I was up against some people had some pride. You should have seen them that they were not entirely godly on their Bible, knowledge. It's just

Rick Tarrant: 49:04

so this the series that you're doing, and we do just have a couple of minutes, and I don't see any raised hands, so I'll keep raising my hand. I'm the the first one was nobody sees this you. Uh huh. And actually, I was just looking at it. on Amazon. Somebody was asking, is it only in ebook but I see we have looks like Kindle and hardcover and paper. There's a hardcover. I didn't know that. That's, indeed, you got it. So so but it's a series and you said, I believe you said nine books. So I'm just curious, what what is the overall arching motivation that that you hope to? There's a title or or there's motivating you.

Paul Renfroe: 49:51

Those are the nine titles. And the motivation, quite frankly, is obedience. So,

Rick Tarrant: 50:01

let me just read down the titles real quick. So nobody sees this you how to live as a spirit in the unseen realm. Nobody sees this unseen realm how to unlock Bible mysteries. Nobody sees this creation dislocating darkness. Nobody sees these enemies the misery of humanity. That sounds deep. Nobody sees this Israel God's Vanguard against darkness. Nobody sees this warrior Gods secret ambush. Nobody sees this church resisting darkness. Nobody sees these friends partners of the unseen nobody sees this victory yet defeating darkness. Paul, you have deep thoughts, and you have well, your your plumbing, some deep waters over these over these titles.

Paul Renfroe: 50:42

Well, just very candidly, in December of 17 2017, I started waking up at 330 every morning. And the content of this book, The Rise and Fall of the kingdom of darkness, which is the predecessor of these books, the unseen series. These these books, put word out the content of these books. Were on practical in the back of my eyelids, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying anything about inspiration or any of that stuff. The Word of God is exclusive and unique. But I am saying this. First Peter 112 says I will do everything to help you hold on to the present truth that you now have, there's a presumption that we'll get more. So this 330 Every morning, I was writing these things, they were just they were on the back of my eyelids, I would wake up on a table, I'd say I don't want to I couldn't even say I don't want to give up get up. I mean, now I can't like I have a dream or something. So I don't want to get up. But I'm gonna I'm a dreamer, by the way. So the point being that for for this six months, these nine books just poured out of my fingers. And I wrote from about 330 to 930 every day, am and and then there they were in the name did rise and fall the kingdom of darkness. But the Lord had other plans. It wasn't mature yet. So I just sat on it. I had a couple of beta readers who identified some, some pretty serious questions. And then in September of 2020 19 2019, I went on a road a motorcycle from here to Dallas Euston 2000 mile round trip. And I'm about 100 miles into an alert stop at that Office Depot, we're going to get a digital handheld recorder. And so, hmm, because it just pouring in and I'm gonna ride a motorcycle, you know, you got to pay attention to drivers. Okay, the time is in it. So anyway, I got a handheld recorder and I dictated this book on a handheld recorder.

Rick Tarrant: 53:08

Get back. Wow. Amazing. So there you have it. So that's why it smells like motorcycle fuel. Well, that's amazing. Well, I know the I know, you just finished up one and book two will be around in April or so. So this will be an interesting journey. This will be dry. You got that right. Yesterday on on affirming words of abundance. My friend Paul Renfro, who was actually introduced to me through Chris Wark and my friend Brian, as I recall, some 20 years ago, yeah, 2022 years ago, actually. Yeah, yeah. Crazy. So thank you for coming on board. Thank you for doing this.

Paul Renfroe: 53:54

Thank you for having me, Rick. And I really appreciate Oberhiri and, and all the others who have been part.

Rick Tarrant: 54:01

Alright. Would you pray us out with with we'll send us on our way with a doxology, sir.

Paul Renfroe: 54:06

Well, Heavenly Father, we just love you. You are the most amazing person is really a joy to be your child in the sacrifice and expense that you laid out to claim us? Who are the least I mean, you should redeem the angels. You said dad for Lucifer, but instead you done for us. Who would think this up you are the most amazing, inventive creative person. Your imagination is unexcelled and this podcast, Proverbs and Rick and everyone, a unique creation that you can save you knit us together in our mother's womb and all the days written in our book were dying before one of them even came to be. We praise you and glorify you and we are asked Going for riches or fame or any of that stuff we would like our name to be in the book of life for sure. Every evidence today says so but we don't underestimate our ability to go astray. I mean, my goodness, look at our history. And even the Apostle Paul said, if by some means I might attain the resurrection of the dead, and so certainly we don't have anywhere near the credibility that he did. And so, Lord Jesus, were asking you that you would fill us with your Holy Spirit so that we might serve you in every present moment, and move forward and hold back nothing, and not let you go. Wrestle with you at whatever it takes to have no thing between us and you. Lord Jesus, we repent, because our flesh is so perverted and so bent away from you. So please heal us and rectify us and make us righteous by the blood of Jesus. And that's what we rely on. Because we declare that Jesus blood was sufficient price for my sin and all our sin and all this in love of Christ compels us for we convinced that one died for all, therefore all. And if any man is in Christ, he is a new creation, we declare your word over ourselves, that you conferred upon us a kingdom, just as your Father conferred a kingdom upon you. And so, as you're stewards of the kingdom entrusted to us, we will rule we will stay away from the addictions of Proverbs 23, we will clamor for your word we declare over ourselves, that your protective Holy Spirit living within us is leading us in the way everlasting. Hallelujah. And so we praise You and glorify You because You are amazing, amazing, personal to us. And yet, beyond the universe itself, in Jesus name, and by His blood, we declare ourselves to be your enunciator is on the earth. That your home on Earth is in us where we live at work in our family, on computer on the phone, in at a stoplight. Wherever we are. People are close to you. We declare this in your name. Amen.

Rick Tarrant: 57:33

restoration and reconciliation. Thank you, Paul.

Paul Renfroe: 57:37

Thank you. I'm really honored. Thank you, everyone. It really means a lot to be with you.

Rick Tarrant: 57:42

All right, y'all have a wonderful Wednesday. We're just a week away from Lent. And I'll leave you with this. Speak the word renew your mind transform your life. Amen.